This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think the debate we're really having here is:
What level of activity do you consent to when you consent to meeting someone from a dating app?
This is essentially the same as the debate over whether you need to [consent to every action in a romantic escalation] or whether there are basic menu expectations you have, an overton window of things that you consent to when you start. And then of course the argument over what is in that overton window.
Do I have to ask specifically before trying to put my arm around a girl on a movie date, or is that basically expected and her saying "no" after is sufficient? After a date, if I try to kiss her goodnight, is that allowed? Clearly kissing someone who says they don't want to be kissed is bad, but when you get kissed once when you didn't want to be, that's just a hazard of being in certain situations with someone, you have effectively consented to it by going on a date/going to the movies/going to a dance club etc.
But of course, we're talking about gay men so the question is, do you consent to seeing a naked man by going to meet a man in a men's room stall. I think the answer is probably yes, inasmuch as it is bad and offensive to see a naked man you didn't want to see, that's just a risk you took when you met a guy on Grindr.
But they should probably both be fired for this.
More options
Context Copy link