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People will give so much grief to FCFromSSC for pointing out we have completely different values that will tear our country/ies apart, and then post stuff like this...
I'd also say that if you want to have a productive conversation, you should seperate the topics of this incident. Are we litigating the facts? Cool, let's not focus on a propaganda rag's coverge of a single video, let's pull up all the videos, including the one's from the officer's perspective. Let's pull up analogous examples that ended badly for the police officer involved, and compare how far the ICE guy was from meeting the exact same end.
Are we litigating morality? Okay, maybe you can do a compare and contrast with Ashley Babbit, like we did in the last thread? Maybe you can take another look at that video from the previous paragraph and explain whether you that officer was wrong for shooting? If yes, you could then go on to explain why LEO's should be expected to let themselves be killed, regardless of how recklessly a suspect was acting. If not, you could explain how the two situations are different, and what makes the difference SO OBVIOUS to warrant a massive wall of text of moral castigation.
Are we litigating whether politicians lie at worst, or stretch the definitions to the bounds of tolerance in order to score political points? Well, that one is easy, the answer is "yes". Have you been living under a rock?
In any case throwing all these topics in a blender and acting indignant that anyone might disagree is not going to be very productive.
I have lots of empathy for her. She's a victim of an evil political movement that lied to her about her country's law enforcement, and taught her to act in an extremely dangerous and reckless way.
Yes, and the attitude here that is wrong is yours. The cop did not do anything wrong, or at the very least the argument that he didn't is perfectly defensible. Stop shouting people down for disagreeing.
I dunno, I never seen your "everything is fine" shtick as genuine, it always looked like a cudgel to beat populists with. Flipping now that it is your tribe that's upset with the authorities only serves to reinforce that impression.
Apologies for the length of the transcript muddying the points (chalk it up to my fear of destroying too much context), but I did put pretty specific disclaimers at the top and bottom about the topics I was most concerned about. I made exactly two main points and called them explicitly (I even said the words "primary point" and "second point"), so I'm confused why you seem to be so confused.
You seriously think the cop did nothing wrong? Nothing at all? None of the cops? For all liberals have made a big deal about power dynamics, they are real. To quote the relevant piece from the transcript, helpfully bolded for your reading pleasure: "there has to be a higher standard for the people in masks with guns that have been trained than the mom in the car".
Do you believe this, yes or no?
Do you believe this, yes or no?
Do you believe this is a reasonable thing for the VP to say?
And then, as I'm making my way down the thread, it's incredibly revealing that so far no one has engaged with this quote by Trump at all, which is a fucking insane thing to say:
That is a direct quote. That's not at all what the constitution or common sense say. He is literally saying that as far as he's concerned, there are ZERO checks on his global power. Of course this is somewhat distinct from domestic power, but do you see where I'm going with this? Trump and his administration are nakedly breaking rules over their knees and making it a game of pure unadulterated power dynamics, and that's a major threat to our democratic, and relatively stable, prosperous, peaceful, just way of life. Checks and balances and limiting power conflict to constrained arenas is a cornerstone of the game theory that underpins the country. Trump is messing with that. And this incident is perfect proof.
Correct. I think avoiding this situation on his part would require either superhuman abilities, risking his own life in order to save the life of a suspect which already showed herself to be acting with malice, or luck, which was out of his control.
I do believe it, and I think those higher standards were met in this case.
You honestly can't tell what I'm going to say? The answer should be obvious, I don't believe "there can't be any particular officer that went too far", I believe, upon reviewing available evidence, that this particular officer didn't.
Please explain to me why you thought this is a good question to ask, or that defending my position would imply a non-zero chance of answering "yes".
Mostly, yeah.
Let's clear up some factual stuff first: there objectively is accountability - Rene's wife or the Dems can just take ICE to court. They weren't wearing plain clothes, and masks are irrelevant since she knew they were ICE when she got involved. To be clear, I consider these things negotiable, and I think it's fine if you want to advocate for them, but you don't get to act like anyone who disagrees is unresonable or immoral.
As for Vance, I think it's fine for him to say that, and in fact it's throwing the agent who obviously did nothing wrong under the bus, to appease a mob acting in bad faith, that would be unsustainable.
Because everyone knows that the specific content of what politicians say is useless. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's true, and just because they don't say it doesn't mean it isn't. After at least a century of the Constitution being pissed and shat on through actual government actions (most of which you fall under your "the system works, everything is fine" shtick), I'm not about the get my fainting couch over words.
I answered your questions now it's your turn. Contrast the ICE incident to the video I linker above. Contrast Good to Babnit, and explain to me why only Good warrants the amount of outrage you're showing.
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I'm surprised we don't see any comparisons to the Malhuer standoff. That seems like a much clearer precedent.
It crossed my mind, but it's been so long ago I hardly remembered anything about it. Completely forgot anyone got shot there, for example.
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