This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Within a social construct, yes. But when you steal bricks from your neighbor's brick road/driveway because you know you aren't going to be caught, or that you wont be punished, this breaks down.
When you make these kind of arguments, people dont simply understand that a civilization that can establish capitalism and can maintain it is the rarity. A lot of Alex Norwasteh types are like this, and as questions like, "if your culture is so good why wont it just win out?" And the answer is that it is good foor cooperation, and Cooperate-Cooperate wins out over Defect-Defect. And most places are Defect. But what happens when a lot of Defectors enter is they make a lot of local gains, enriching themselves and impoverishing the rest. And often they are able to jump from place to place so long as they are a minority. And realistically, over time they cause the place they defect in to become a defection economy, which just doesn't work.
What people who grew up in Cooperate societies want is Cooperate societies, they don't want to have to send police to every park to ensure there isn't shit and needles where their kids want to play. They don't want their son to compete against a guy using steroids in boxing or using meth during standardized tests. But the things they dont want are what they are getting.
More options
Context Copy link