This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's interesting you mention that because we had a minor local kerfuffle here that made the news because someone dared to refer to a local official by his first name rather than Dr. They had to publicly apologize and everything. To me, people who insist on it come off as petty and pretentious. The US is famously egalitarian in generally eschewing the peerage system and delineating class by using titles. It's far more common to use first names even with your medical doctor. To insist otherwise creates a separation, the old idea of "how you treat your betters." So it's very much a class-based issue, so I don't think it's comparable to what trans people are asking.
Otherwise I will just say I've known one trans person in my life. I do believe the issue caused intense distress. I know there's been a trend of people "jumping" on the trans bandwagon and basically adopting it as if it was a sub-identity like goth or whatever. This person wasn't one of those. They were a full adult, very reserved, Christian and generally conservative, and they didn't tend to really reveal anything private about themselves. So it was quite a shock when they came out. They weren't out to score political points or be trendy or live out a fetish or whatever you might be thinking. They just wanted to live authentically, to heal whatever psychic suffering they struggled under. I don't know how much counseling or whatever they underwent. At the end of the day, if you care for someone as a person, you accept what they tell you about themselves. So I am respectful and kind to them and treat them as the gender they're presenting as.
But you'll notice I haven't actually used a gendered pronoun here to talk about them because, yes, it's not something I'm wholly comfortable with. While personally I'm on the side of compassion and acceptance, I understand that has very little to do with what policies are correct. Sex-segregated spaces are a thing for a reason and I think those should be preserved. Same thing with sports. There need to be much stronger guardrails on medical interventions rather than automatic total affirmation, and I'm glad to see signs of changes there. The drivers license thing I could go either way on. If you're arresting someone, you need to know whether to house them with the women or the men. But if you're just looking to identify someone or circulate their description, you need to know what they're presenting as. Having M on a drivers license seems like it hinders identification if they're walking around presenting as female.
Someone like that, yeah, I have sympathy. Maybe even let's permit them to put female on the driver's licence, though that's a big switch. They're not trying to score points, they want to live as normally as they can.
But the problem is that they are lumped in with, and used by, the types like Mr. Restaurant Misgendered who made a career out of looking to be offended in order to create those videos. Mr. Misgendered gets repudiated by the trans activism groups as a narcissistic grifter, then I have no problem with your acquaintance getting help and support because there's genuine need there. But Mr. Misgendered won't be, that's the trouble.
More options
Context Copy link
Wasn't there something about the insistence on referring to Jill Biden as Dr. Biden? With one side claiming it was horrible disrespect to omit her title and the other claiming it was puncturing pretension?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link