This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
My issue with most discussion around fascism is that essentially, it’s completely unemperical. The things that get counted are basically decided by whoever decides to declare by checklist that some government is fascist.
Politics as war is not a unique concept to fascism. Politics evolved as an alternative to actual warfare any time the leadership of a society changes. The ballot is a form of ritualized bullet, and was invented because the alternative was basically kill the leader and his heirs if you didn’t want that royal line to rule. Elections are a bloodless Red Wedding, to be blunt.
Territorial aggression? Again, nations taking action to prop up regimes friendly to themselves and topple enemies is not some innovation of MAGA and Trump. That was essentially how we fought the Cold War, invade any country that went communist, prop up those countries that went capitalist. There were dozens of these wars: Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and we propped up Pinochet as a capitalist dictator in Chile. We invaded Iraq several times, we bombed Serbia at least twice. Obama had a hobby of drone strikes.
And to cut it short, I think until such time as a warning list for fascism comes that doesn’t allow for the gamesmanship of the person calling the game getting to decide based on vague definitions what counts, the entire discussion is at best a waste of time and at worst, booing the out group.
More options
Context Copy link