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This most recent iran thread is a complete shitshow and I lost braincells reading it. Can the mods make a containment thread or something, I think it may have reached the point where it's necessary.
Edit: Just fuck off and give me a 6 month - 1 year ban or even permanently instead of this weaksauce bullshit. The below iran thread is seriously reddit and twitter tier on both sides and if this is what the mods think of as good high effort discussion then just do me a favor and show me the door. Otherwise I can't resist responding in kind.
You can definitely tell the Iran war has really hit some identity-buttons, because most of the thread is about what the war (or the causes of the war) means for national identity, political identity, and of course, as always, the Jews.
I have very strong views of opposition to the Iran war as I think it will not work and puts Americans in harms way for an impossible objective, but psychologically it's very hard to try to argue measuredly against accusations from foreigners that my country is evil, even if I agree with them on the object level. The fact that things like the Iran war harms American prestige abroad factors into my feelings about it, but it's one thing to evaluate American desire for regime change and dislike of non-aligned regimes in the Middle East from the inside, and another to feel like I have to justify my country in the midst of our worst impulses.
I think some element of the "I voted for this, bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran," energy is a kind of reaction formation to feeling like the country as an entity is being criticized from the outside based on actions that almost everyone in the country is either opposed to or bewildered by. Everyone I've talked to on the ground is completely confused by what's going on, no one is going John McCain "Iran deserves it."
Americans have a lot of that -- feeling like we're powerful enough that the world inevitably views us as wildly suspicious, yet without much international glory and prestige to show for it. We theoretically have the power to level cities, yet our government could not protect us from a Saudi rich boy living in an Afghan cave flying fully-fueled jetliners into skyscrapers, and the headquarters of our military. Inevitably some level of response is "maybe we gonna level they god-damn cities."
I think the American psychology is a sense of being burdened with the criticism, responsibility, and threat that being a great power inevitably generates, but without any of the respect, from within or without, that such power might engender. Some element of our worst impulses, and even the Trumpian "America First" political movement, is about examining the Machiavellian dilemma, observing that with the US's power it is unlikely to ever be loved, and therefore choosing whatever means might make us feared.
Unfortunately, war is always a complete shitshow. But especially so when identity, fear, pride, ego, and power get involved. In other words, always.
I appreciate the sentiment of this comment. We can direct all Iran war discourse directly at phailyoor.
I get the irony of me posting a discourse on the war to someone who was upset about the discourse about the war, but my point was that I actually agree with phailyoor that the thread is a shitshow and I wanted to provide a meta-discussion on what exactly made it so frustrating to read. If phailyoor is unhappy with this I'm happy to re-post it somewhere else.
Edit: I notice that phailyoor got angrier after posting his comment and is now banned. I'm sorry if my comment did something to contribute to the frustration, my goal was to commiserate and not to add to the fire. I found the Iran thread frustrating as well, and hard to read.
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