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Well I appreciate you being a good sport about my rant and screed but I don't think any analysis of America that concludes it has no civilization is compelling. I could accept an argument that American civilization is an extension of European civilization, but that's just about the same thing. America has all the hallmarks of high culture and deep habits, except perhaps for a time measured in millennia (but if that's all civilization is then I'm not sure it matters much as a concept, it certainly doesn't explain much about what's in front of us with Iran).
Mostly I didn't address this because I don't think the civilization question has much to do with it.
Insofar as we can discuss this, I think this is a question for Europeans to decide. I'm actually fairly appreciative of Europe in general and I respect their ability to choose. I'm just fairly convinced from everything I know about Europe that they're fairly deluded about the nature of their relationship with America. Europe is not seeing things rationally. Europe fails to understand America at all.
America pays the vast majority of Europe's defense costs. America supplies weapons and planes and intel that are beyond what Europe can produce on its own. America guarantees the supply of oil and natural gas. America provides the security framework that keeps Europe together instead of devolving into the old squabbles and wars. It's not all charity but it does come at some cost to us. Instead of ever appreciating it or trying to honestly assess the trade-offs, America is met with derision, scorn, tariffs, trade barriers, condescension, etc. It is frankly a little deluded of Europe, as see this:
We don't need Spain's bases to project force in the Middle East. We don't need Spain at all. We have bases there, it would be nice and convenient to use them, but American defense does not depend on Spain in this sense. It's laughable. Ok, so Spain wants out? Who keeps the sea lanes safe? Who keeps the oil flowing? Spain doesn't want American bases to be used for icky ugly things like war, ok, does that mean Spain will raise its own navy to protect its ships from pirates? No, because of course America will continue to do that, and Spain will gladly take advantage of it, as long as they don't have to confront the reality of what that means. It's delusional. Spain has no leverage over America. Believe me that this thinking inspires a lot of resentment in America and will probably ultimately kill NATO, unless Donald Trump successfully renegotiates it so that Europe actually starts to pay some of what they were supposed to pay all along.
Yeah that's right Americans like having their cake and eating it there's no denying it. Except in this case it's Europe that gets to have its cake and eat it: we pay for your defense and then you put conditions on how we're allowed to do it. Ok then, walk away. You guys can deal with Russia, you guys can fix the Gulf. Which won't actually happen anyways -- America will find other allies in Europe because we don't really need the present order to survive. You do.
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