This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm perfect willing to talk to someone who is anti-nazi, or anti-semitic, or anti-racism.
The problem is that quite a few people who these descriptions apply to are not worth talking to. I'd bet most people in Israeli leadership circles are very aware of how WWI created WWII, and therefore have awareness of the impact of what they do in Palestine has for the future. They'd be willing to discuss these tensions (at least previously).
Woke types? No. The Nazis are Satan if you try and argue that Cambodia or the USSR represent worse regimes you'll be labeled a Nazi or hear a bunch of talking points that are all soldiers or weak-men.
We've spent the last ten years getting used to how these people argue.
Anti-jew posters are often like them. For this specific poster - he recently had a conversation with one of our mods who handled it better and more eloquently than I could.
If you always blame the jews for everything in predictable ways, I'm just going to assume that's what you are going to do. You may eventually be right but that's not through predictive power it's through repetition.
Although - credit to SS for actually posting interesting things about other topics, although it took a bunch of redirection from the mods to get there.
Additionally if you disagree you typically get downvotes, personal attacks, and accusations of being a sheep. Everyone still here is sufficiently heterodox to make that an embarrassing accusation.
More options
Context Copy link