This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Note, though, that conservative old-order Amish sects have a retention rate of up to 97%. The women in these communities are allowed to leave, and there are organizations that will even help them transfer over to our Mad Max universe if they so desired. But they prefer their way of life because they have been conditioned to value it. The Amish are practicing the exact God-given freedom that the Founders had in mind when they spoke about freedom of religion, because this freedom permitted the plurality of religious sects to do pretty much whatever they wished in their communities. Freedom in the context of American mythology originally meant that families could raise their kids and police their communities according to a faith tradition of their choosing, free from any government intervention: like the Amish, the Quakers, Mohammedans, Freemasons, anything. The Founders envisioned a society in which thousands of strict microcultures could develop or flourish unregulated, two of which could be atheism and feminism, but by no means were these considered a kind of default setting that every kid must pass through before becoming an adult with substantially less neuroplasticity.
When we say “women are now free”, what we mean is that their values are no longer decided by anyone who loves them deeply, but instead are decided by nameless bureaucrats who they will never meet, whose opinions are informed by the lobbying of corporate interests upon politicians. This is not really freedom. You have exchanged one kind of social conditioning (decided by loving figures in their own community) for another kind of social conditioning (decided by unknown people interested in maximizing their bank accounts). We can call this feedom, to differentiate it from freedom proper. In the system of feedom, women are raised to pay the most fees, in the form of taxes to the government or in the form of labor to corporations. Their lives exists to increase the wealth for the rich and oligarchic families that rule over the government, the publishing industry, the corporations and the media. The wealth that the fee-women generate ensures that the women in the oligarchic households never really have to do actual work; they live lives of incredible leisure masquerading as Socially Important Work. They will acquire a small business for its aesthetic value, or they might sit at a sinecure law firm because of their family reputation, or they will get involved in the “art world” or NGOs which is really just partying.
More options
Context Copy link