This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
White men quite clearly have been naive and greedy and you guys exploited that masterfully. It was idiotic to invest so much in a hostile country because something something middle class democracy liberalization. China certainly isn't making the same mistake, they're not investing in outsourcing their manufacturing to India, they're trying to constrain Indian manufacturing.
This is our repayment for saving China from Japan, I suppose. The Hump, the Burma Road, all the Australians, Americans, Brits who bailed out China ended up fighting them in Korea, getting displaced economically later on.
Unfortunately for China, I think it's too late. The compute advantage is too great, singularity too close, Chinese fabs too far behind. Chip sanctions, albeit inadequately enforced, albeit undermined by Jensen's heroic lobbying/bullshitting efforts, will be sufficient. Mythos and its successors will overmatch Chinese human capital. The ultimate outcomes may well be bad for most of humanity but it'll surely be crushing for China.
I don't understand this mindset of sneering at the other side for being 'defeatist' if they pursue their strongest strategy in a straightforward competition, while simultaneously bragging about one's own power and the inevitability of their defeat. At least Jensen is trying to sell his chips, what are you trying to sell to a presumably mostly white, mostly American audience? It's not defeatist to take the most plausible path to success, jettison all the cope about magic dirt and wield some power.
You're implying that we're the party responsible for this. When will you learn that your own elite is responsible? Go find them and voice your concerns. If you fail, try again until you succeed. What is this nonsensical lashing out at others, grasping at every straw to dodge your own responsibility? Also you did not save us from Japan. You're Australian if I'm not mistaken. The Americans can claim to save us from Japan and they'd be partially right, and they are quite the benevolent empire from the very beginning. You cannot.
You've said similar things before about how formidable our industrial base is and how the West basically lost. Hyperbole is a pattern with you.
Save me this insinuation. I am not sneering at the other side. I am sneering at the people who deserve to be sneered at, and that's not everyone on "your" side.
I have also not bragged about China's power or the inevitability of your defeat. Are you unable to read?
I have been very clear about what I was trying to sell to this mostly white, mostly American audience: there is risk to confrontation, and it does not have to be this way. What are you trying to sell to your fellows?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link