This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
New Zealand and Sweden, shown here, would be countries that have been quite extensively mRNA-vacced but haven't seen major excess mortality spikes lately, at least compared to Sweden's two Covid-wave-congruent spikes (which NZ avoided through its famous zero-covid policies, until it ended them, which then correlates with a modest excess deaths increase in mid-2022, ie. winter months in NZ). Lately, NZ excess mortality has been pretty close to baseline.
Now, that's just two countries, but if it it's mRNA vaccines, how could that be? According to NZ govt website, almost 90% of 12+ residents have got the primary course, ie. two shots. How are they avoiding excess mortality, if it's vaccine-related? Do they have different vaccines than the rest? Again, according to NZ govt, the Pfizer vaccine is the preferred vaccine in NZ.
I don't think it's impossible that there vaccine is somewhat more dangerous than generally understood and might contribute a bit, but I still consider it likely that the current excess mortality rates are better explained by Covid itself, non-Covid respiratory diseases that were smothered for two years and are now back in force, and the cumulative effects of past years leading to increase in obesity, decrease in doctoral check-ups etc, whether one blames those more on fear of Covid itself or the gov't policies like lockdowns. Maybe one even sees the effect of things like increased food prices and electricity prices etc. (ie. old/poor people cutting back on heating or food, worsening their health outcomes and contributing to potential earlier deaths, and so on).
More options
Context Copy link