This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Um, Im not? This is largely in their interests. Black mens variation of masculinity does have an element of clear toxicity, driven by historical, societal circumstances, and governmental policy (and maybe we'll say here that HBD might be playing a role, but I'd like to focus on what we can control here). This clearly doesn't make them very attractive mates, a la them being more likely to be single. It actively damages their relationships.
Women find both masculine and "feminine" qualities attractive in men. Again, no ones arguing against being manly, I'm merely arguing for a slight tweak in masculinity to include some of these softer elements, that would aid in keeping a mate in the long term. If you insist on a slightly manlier variation of this, the comic-book hero Superman fits the bill fairly well.
We shouldnt be overstating womens preference for masculinity. Yes, women are looking for elements of masculinity when selecting mates, but the man in questions cant be too masculine, because that risks turning the strength aggression on her and the children.
I actually stand corrected! Excellent. For the record I actually forgot about Usher and RnB black men existed for a second (& sadly, we don't see them that much in the mainstream anymore). I'd like to see more!
This is counter-productive in almost all cases. A fit in shape person is gonna give a fat-ass an proper ass-whooping 99% of the time. Size matters to a point, but there is a distinction between sumo wrestler 200lbs, & Brock Lesnar 200lbs. But sure, inner city violence incentivizes masculint behaviour, fair enough. Solution? Crack down & lock them up.
Again, this is a false dichotomy. The goal is for our sweet guy to have both traits, that's basically the whole point of this post. I care for the black community, and I'd like to see them succeed. Having children "raised" by pookey and ray ray is counter productive to this end goal. Do I need emphasize that women aren't only attracted to just the hyper-manly health inspector?
On the decreasing likelihood of you not actually being a sufficiently advanced troll, thanks a lot. This is the best laugh I've had all week.
Again, on the off chance that you're not actually a troll, you do understand what you sound like, right? You sound like someone who has never actually talked or interacted with human beings enough. I'm serious. This and your previous argument about how "we should get men decent paying jobs". Yes, no shit. But shit in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.
I don't want to tar men of system or wonks with the same brush but yes, of course the issues you're talking about are obvious. Your fixes, assuming they are even remotely feasible, would do just as much if not more damage. Go on, I'm waiting to see how you can fix black families - and while you're at it, fix income inequality, the prison-profit pipeline, black male incarceration, gang culture and schooling.
Inner city violence doesn't incentivize masculine behavior. Humans do. Humans. Ugly, brutish, cruel, self-interested humans. Black male culture valorizes strength, violence, and in the parlance of their culture, fucking a lot of bitches. Can you offer them anything close to this that satisfies those drives? And don't say Heinlein's bug war, jokingly or not. Let's not pretend those drives aren't shared by a lot of men. Although the vast amount of chemicals in modern food, water, and testicles might have done their part in damaging those drives, it's still up against thousands of years of men succeeding by caving in other men's skulls with rocks and dragging women to caves by their hair. Black men have found a solution that works for their sexual success. Sexual success became divorced from long term stable pair bonding a long time ago, it was called women's liberation and birth control, and as soon as that happened everything else falls into place. And those two genies are never going back in the bottle outside of the business end of a jackboot, so good luck trying.
In the immortal words of Freddie Gibbs:
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link