This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If the Law is not clear then who gets to decide the rule? I don’t think it’s clear that Courts get to. Thinking about the 14th Amendment I don’t think it’s clear the SC gets to make the decision. Jurisdiction has meaning and I don’t see why the SC gets to choose the meaning. Reasonable people can have different meanings.
Ideally the legislature would clarify. I am not sure how this would work with an Amendment. Could a simple bill make the decision or do you need to amend the amendment for clarification? I definitely think the legislature gets first crack at it but I am not sure what process is necessary a bill or amendment to clarify an amendment. If it’s only a bill then you could to limited extent be modify the Constitution whenever the legislature changes.
If the legislature does nothing then who gets to decide the meaning of “Jurisdiction”. I don’t believe the courts should do anything that would be creating policy. The definition of jurisdiction isn’t in the amendment. They have nothing to base a decision.
Absent legislative action then I guess the executive branch gets to define the word and citizenship status is just an executive order. And if your born 2 min before a GOP POTUS leaves you are a non-citizen for life and if your born minutes later your a citizen for life. Legislative or Executive Action each are more Democratic when bills are passed that lack clarity on meaning.
But I do think in most situations you can write legislation that solves 90-95% of cases in footnotes to legislation. A lot of legislation is written very poorly.
More options
Context Copy link