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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   913 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for May 1, 2026

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Paging @ToaKraka, since you're the resident civil engineer/rules aficionado, I have a question about construction zone safety, and what I can do to combat the rash of confusing and/or nonsensical flagging situations that seem to have proliferated in the past year or two. Last night I was sitting at a 5-way intersection in the southbound center lane, intending to continue on the same road. There is also a left turning lane for those making one of two left-hand options, as well as a lane for those turning right. The lane I was traveling in, on the far side of the intersection (about 200' away), was blocked by construction vehicles, a sign saying "Road Work Ahead", and two flaggers, one with a flag and one with those light batons. The opposing lane of traffic had cars sitting at the light traveling northbound, and at some point one of the flaggers waved them through. The light was operating throughout this whole time so I wasn't sure whether I was supposed to follow the light or the flaggers, but when I had the first cycle of green there was nowhere for me to go so I just sat there watching the flaggers who, mind you, were 200' away from me.

At one point the guy with the light batons, who was standing near the trucks behind the guy with the flag, started doing some dance that I at first couldn't tell if it was because he was trying to direct traffic or because he was bored, but it soon became obvious that it was the latter. Then the guy with the flag started making a waving motion that was so vague I couldn't tell which cars he was waving through or where he wanted them to go, but given that I had been sitting there a while and the northbound lane was clear I interpreted to mean that that lane was available for southbound traffic. Of course, as soon as I start heading for the open lane the guy starts yelling "No" quite loudly, and I have to beat a retreat to making a right turn, which was only a minor detour but still irritating given that I knew as soon as I saw the construction that I wasn't going to be given any straightforward instructions.

To summarize: There were two guys controlling a road at an intersection with four approaches, two of which were too far away to see anything clearly, the other two with bad sight lines. One of the guys was treating his traffic control device like a toy. There was no signage indicating that the southbound lane was closed, or any posted detour. A simple sign indicating that the road was closed would have been sufficient, but instead they seemingly decided to create a situation that was intentionally confusing in the hope that people would just not bother. I was half tempted to pull up and roll down my window and demand to speak to who was in charge of this and see a safety plan, lie about being an engineer from PennDOT and make up a state law saying that the contractor had to have a copy of the safety plan on site that was available upon request.

If this were an isolated incident I wouldn't care that much, but something similar has happened about a half dozen times, all in the past year or two, once last summer at the exact same intersection. I don't recall it happening at all in the previous 20 years of driving, so either I'm getting dumber or people are getting more lax. I'm sure there's some way to lodge a formal complaint, but that's no fun. I want to know what the actual regulations and best practices are so I can go into full-blown dick mode the next time this happens and have some ammunition to back me up. I can understand if this was some kind of emergency repair but they repaved the entire road last summer and have been doing more work for the past week.

five way intersection

Half assed construction

Tell me you're in Western PA without telling me you're in Western PA.

They’ve got plenty of 5-point intersections where I come from, and I’m nowhere near PA.

I want to know what the actual regulations and best practices are so I can go into full-blown dick mode the next time this happens and have some ammunition to back me up.

I was a designer who drew up traffic-control plans, not a construction engineer who oversaw the actual implementation of those plans, but I'll do my best.

MUTCD chapter 6D (Flagger Control):

The STOP/SLOW paddle should be the primary and preferred hand-signaling device because the STOP/SLOW paddle gives road users more positive guidance than red flags.

Use of flags should be limited to emergency situations.

When flagging in an emergency situation at night in a non-illuminated flagger station, a flagger may use a flashlight with a red glow cone to supplement the STOP/SLOW paddle or flag.

§ 6D.05 ¶ 5 includes detailed instructions on hand movements when using flags rather than a stop/slow paddle.

However, it looks like PennDOT is much less strict than the feds on the usage of flags over stop/slow paddles. See the text that I have italicized below. (This is novel to me. NJDOT Standard Specifications § 159.03.08 item A prescribes the use only of paddles, not of flags—even though NJDOT still calls them "flaggers"!)

PennDOT Publication 408 (Construction Specifications) § 901.3:

According to Publication 212, Publication 213, and the MUTCD.

Install and maintain traffic control devices as indicated on the TCP [traffic-control plan]…

Provide flaggers that successfully completed a flagger-training course within the last 3 years that complies with the Department’s minimum flagger training guidelines described below. Assure that flaggers carry a valid wallet-sized training card containing the name of the flagger, training source, date of successful completion of training, and signature; or provide a roster of trained flaggers to the Representative before the start of flagging operations that contains the names of flaggers, training source, and date of successful completion of training. Minimum flagger training guidelines include the following…

Publication 212 (Official Traffic Control Devices) § 403:

Plans for construction projects must either reference or include a temporary traffic-control (TTC) plan, which must consist of one of the following:

(1) A reference to a specific figure either in the MUTCD or in [Publication 213] that properly depicts actual site conditions.

(2) A copy of a specific figure either in the MUTCD or [in Publication 213] which has been modified to depict actual site conditions and the necessary traffic-control requirements for the specific project.

(3) One or more detailed plan sheets or drawings showing the actual site conditions and the TTC requirements for the specific project.

§ 412:

A red flag shall only be used to control traffic in emergencies when a Stop/Slow Paddle is not available or at intersections where a single flagger is used within an intersection.

Last night I was sitting at a 5-way intersection in the southbound center lane, intending to continue on the same road. There is also a left turning lane for those making one of two left-hand options, as well as a lane for those turning right. The lane I was traveling in, on the far side of the intersection (about 200' away), was blocked by construction vehicles, a sign saying "Road Work Ahead", and two flaggers, one with a flag and one with those light batons.

A flagger-controlled alternating-traffic setup beginning at a four-way signalized intersection is covered by Publication 213 figure 110-Q or 110-R. (For a five-way intersection, the designer or contractor would have to draw up a custom, but largely similar, traffic-control plan.) Both figures put a paddle-wielding flagger at the end of the closure that isn't at the intersection. To cover the other three approaches, figure 110-Q puts one flag-wielding flagger in the middle of the intersection controlling three approaches, while figure 110-R uses three paddle-wielding flaggers. You can see how a contractor might prefer to cut his labor costs by using 110-Q over 110-R.

There was no signage indicating that the southbound lane was closed, or any posted detour.

If there were flaggers, then the setup was supposed to be alternating traffic with no detours, not full closure with a "road closed" sign and detours. (See Publication 213 figure 215, which covers a road closure.)

So, in sum:

  • From your description, it sounds like the overall traffic-control setup was standards-compliant as originally designed, but the flaggers were badly trained (and incorrectly equipped, if one of them was holding only light-up cones, without a flag; see also Publication 213 § B-14). You can try complaining to PennDOT that it should follow NJDOT and abandon the use of a flag-wielding flagger standing in the middle of an intersection to control multiple legs of that intersection simultaneously, but you probably won't have much success.

  • MUTCD § 6D.05 can be pointed at in order to explain how a flagger is "treating his traffic control device like a toy" and "making waving motions that are vague".

Note:

  • It's very possible that PennDOT has guidelines regarding when 110-Q is unsafe (e. g., due to high traffic volume) and 110-R must be used, and I just failed to find those guidelines.

  • This may have been a local jurisdiction that should be following PennDOT standards but is just too lazy to do so.

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