Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 140
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I just find it interesting that effectively someone can sit there drinking one hot drink while condemning someone else for drinking a different hot drink, or potentially a drink that has never been hot, under the authority of and despite the relevant passage unambiguously referring to "hot drinks".
I'm not trying to start an argument but this seems like it's purpose built for starting arguments.
The entire premise here is fuzzy. Nobody's condemning anyone, hence your perplexity. Upon our baptism, we have entered a voluntary agreement to abstain from specific beverages. Nobody is imposing that framework on people who do not adhere to our Church. Once again, it is a sacrifice we make akin to the Jewish kosher laws wrt shellfish.
"I just find it interesting that effectively someone can sit there eating chocolate with cherry liqueur in it while condemning someone else for slamming jägerbombs at the bar."
My perplexity is in learning that "hot drinks" is interpreted by those it affects in a way that includes certain cold drinks and precludes certain hot drinks. That's all. It's such a simple rule with such low stakes that I find it difficult to think of how it became contentious.
Well again, in 1830s America, it was well understood that hot beverages colloquially referred to tea and coffee as opposed to yerba mate. It is a whole-to-part synecdoche, a colloquial irregularity that appears in every spoken language.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link