This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Given how reducto-ed this argument is, here I present the opposite direction reducto:
(That whole exchange replicated here):
I agree. That's why every American should be issued a Minuteman III ICBM at birth. With it's reduced capacity magazine of a single 300ish kiloton warhead; it is a reasonable deterrent against someone wandering over your property line or getting too angry on the road.
Do you not like the idea of every US citizen being able to instantly vaporize 1 square kilometer anywhere on earth? They already have access to knives and heavy rocks and such, why should we care about the means of Death? Its the ends that we are passing judgment for, in this case the ends being every small town in america instantly being vitrified the first time some chud gets fighty in the parking lot of the shitiest of it's three bars.
The argument from general effect just doesn't work for arms control, because it comes packaged with the response "So you think I should be able to buy a Mk19 40mm grenade launcher with the 48 grenade belt and mount it on top of my corolla? No? So much for freedom!"
If the argument is "X amount of rando civilians getting ventilated is the cost of freedom, counting or not counting gang violence?", that is a respectable axiomatic stance that I might hold, given how I got that thang not on me but safely stored unloaded in a floor mount safe with a box of desiccant packets I've collected from various food bags over the years.
More options
Context Copy link