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Nice write up, and big oof for actually reading theory. You just have the book on a shelf with the spine facing out, don't actually open it!
Even if we do take the labor theory of value as true, Marx makes some headscratching exclusions. Neither merchants nor managers actually create value, despite the former enhancing use-value by transporting goods to distant markets, and the later creating value by enhancing the value of his charges’ labor.
Re. that, if we are being (extremely) charitable you could do some interpretation such like: Merchants aren't moving shit and managers aren't managing shit, merchants own something in some theoretical sense and they pay laborers to do the moving and selling and what have you, managers simply employ proll bosses to do the managing while they get blowjobs in their corner suite, somthing somthing 1920's political cartoon.
I don't think this is clearly stated or well supported in the actual text, but you could make the argument.
You are motte and baily-ing "Woke".
Much like when Charlie Kirk said "DEI", every comedian started foaming at the mouth, their pen setting their pad aflame, dude playing burning piano on the beach meme, "Those DEIs need to use different drinking fountains, DEIs in paris, DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI, I'm 200% DEI" before jizzing themselves unconscious.
Much like DEI means DEI but it also means Naggers but with a different vowel, Woke means the set of principles and tactics outlined above, but also anything that makes a someone with Chud aesthetic principles feel a little uncomfortable. "This person is not presenting gender in a way I like so my tummy hurt, therefore woke" type shit.
Much like the woke fucked up getting to call people they don't like racist and the Zionist lobby is currently fucking up getting to call people they don't like antisemites, Woke is either fully fucked or in the terminal stage of fucked.
Pretty soon all that fire and brimstone is gonna turn into your grandpa getting all het up about men wearing belts to church instead of braces; what barberism.
I don't know why but three leading much likes for three by three analogous statements pleases my brainstem.
Fair enough. I grew up in a much more trad society, which weirdly cared way less about masculinity because everybody knew that at the end of the day the cows needed to be brought in and milked and the roof needed to be patched and dinner needed to be cooked, and getting it done was more important than being seen getting it done.
It helps one be a natural feminist when your formative experience of womanhood was Upon Dona Vicky (Capital D Dona) getting SO mad at a cow for stepping in the milk bucket on purpose then trying to step on her when she went to right it; then punched the cow in the head SO hard it (the cow) fell over and mended it's bitchy ways and acted rightly from then on (with her. Still a devil to everyone else until eventually it was eaten).
It makes all the peacocking western Manly Men do feel kinda hollow, because I can always refer to this subsistence and a bit extra farm wife I knew and think "I know a woman that could actually factually kill you in one punch, who was about 16" taller and 60 lbs heavier than her husband, and that shit was fine, so what's this dudes problem"
That is true, but in a weird way caring about them makes you less likely to have them. I think of the "Manliest" men I have known in my life, and I think of Don Miguel, who ran his hillside finca his entire life, caused no trouble for anybody, resolved any trouble brought to him by others one way or another to his own satisfaction, and was carrying fenceposts a couple miles up a hill well into his 80's. When it was his turn to help the neighbor put up a roof he did it without complaint, when it was his turn to get a roof put up the neighbors were happy to help.
At no point in his entire life did he for a second thing about " A man is a provider. A man is skilled at hard things. A man ...", or testosterone, or the dating marketplace. Similarly for my picks in the US; my neighbour Lloyd, old man Swede, etc etc.
None of these men would be considered particularly manly by the degenerates in the manosphere, but each of them would psychically and emotionally and in some cases (Swede was BIG big, like absentmindedly lift a stack of tires all at once well into his 70s big).
I guess this clarifies what I think of as the basis of virtue, which is being tough. Would you be as you were if life was a bit harder? This is also why I don't respect gender I suppose; because to in the end it's the same for all humans; regardless of your chromosomal or phycological arrangements.
Maybe I've read too much Nietzsche, but the whole " A man is a provider. A man is skilled at hard things. A man ..." always comes off as external validation seeking weakness.
What sort of man needs the world to tell them they are a man? What sort of man is concerned at all about their manliness? By even wondering how/if you are man enough, you become not.
In summation: The Cis Het Neurotypical etc etc so on so forth are not alright, I think I dodged a bullet when god was rolling up my traits and I didn't get "Really concerned with performing gender".
There are some dumbasses out there that want someone that will fuck their whole life up; it isn't gender segregated. I come from a poor background so I seen more of it than most people who were born upper middle; the poor whites especially love to date the exact drunk/high piece of shit who was their mother/father. Shit is tragic.
But, outside of the people who are going to find some way to self destruct, even in the past the bad boy thing was the media hallucination of the time to make middle aged men shake their heads slowly and middle aged women tut tut and give all them oldies the opportunity to feel superior to the youth. The avocado toast of their day, as it were.
Maybe I'm just built different, but all that collective guilt shit always reads as either a confesion, a projection, or moral weakness to me.
Yeah, I'm a feminist. I'm also a flawless adonis placed on earth as an example to be followed. I don't feel guilty for shit, if I've fucked up in the past I simply don't do that thing again, and if anyone tries to make me feel bad about it I simply don't, because I'm not so bitchmade that people tut tutting me keeps me up at night.
Secondly: Also, all that "Girls like jerks" talk is a self report. Girls don't like jerks! Everyone alive likes confidence, and one way to have confidence is to enjoy being cruel to people!
Some statistically congruent portion of women are stupid and fail to see the blatant signs, just like some men are stupid and let themselves get DA'd and SA'd because they're manly men, and manly men don't get raped or abused; bitches do, so whatever is happening must not be rape or abuse because then they would be a bitch and they aren't, as they go to the bar for the sixth day in a row instead of coming home to feel sad about having a FUCKING GIRLFRIEND, not even a wife! A girlfriend! Silence knowledge workers, Someone is telling you they were in construction without telling you they were in construction.
That is the main problem with the manosphere IMO: It presents a set of values and structures that cause men who truly buy in to justify being taken advantage of both by other men and women instead of simply Hitting Da Bricks.
We have a mixed system it's true, but over the bast 40 years it has become less and less mixed, and more and more market based. At will employment mass adoption/the elimination of the pension was the point at which we ticked over into a libertarian system IMO.
I live in Coastal Comi-fornia, so every time I go east a bit past Vegas and before I hit the WASPy zone to the North, I'm shocked by how third world the rest of the US is.
I hear all this shit about "crumbling infrastructure" and I'm like, A: what infrastructure and B: What crumbling, forgetting I'm in the all roads no bridges no brakes and also everything gets repaved and rebuilt on a 10 year cycle permanent construction state, and most of the rest of the country is in the "We cut taxes so much on the 10 rich car dealership owners/ 1800's style Local Bosses that there's no money, simply fill the pothole with your bodies.
Another reminder that history is on the side of Elite Human Capital, that EHC is on LGBTQ+ side, that Ukraine is Queer.
I don't have a strong position here other than I don't care about or understand giving a shit about gender from any direction and I'm pro-trans only from the perspective of libertarianism and I don't give a shit about sports, womens or otherwise BUT!
The first time I encountered the mythical trans cat girl lockheed martin merchant of death in the wild on business, I knew what side was gonna win out eventually.
You can look and act as differently as you want if your performance busts through the top of the graph in a category that matters (delivering presents to your friends with millimeter precision anywhere in the world even without satellite coverage to know where your friend is exactly).
I am quite left wing you might say, and I am against it for now; given who is asking for it and how they are asking. Mister ""find 11,780 votes" wants to put his spoon in? I wonder why.
That said, the instant we pick an ID (SSN or TIN, medicare, Drivers License, Passport card, there are so fucking many) and make it mandatory, free, and universally accepted, I will instantly flip. I'm tired of having that thang on me (my stack of government proof I exist) every time I do anything sufficiently financial, shuffling through a binder of documents like I'm trading pokemon cards.
Usually the full fat passport is enough, but sometimes ... Do you want my SSN card? Not that SSN card, huh? You don't like this one? It doesn't elicit joy? How bout some bank statements? Phone company bill! Bitch, it isn't 1985 anymore!
I agree, but the way we value things currently comes from the liberal idea of property rights, including property rights over yourself and your capacities. To make that prohibition, you would need to violate the concept that the owner owns his business free and clear and may choose as he likes, and that the worker owns their labor free and clear and may choose as he likes.
If you were to make that general prohibition, you would defacto live under a different system of relationships than we do now.
I'll be honest, I just copy pasted and didn't want to summon you if you weren't already looking.
Having been there: They deserve credit for choosing a dude and not biting the hand that feed, we can give them that. Other peoples have managed less with more. That said:
The degeneracy comes from the fact that they took that enormous amount of money that comes out of the ground, and who exploits it? They have third world poors do their physical labor, they have professional class westoids do their intellectual labor (me!), they import all their artists and cultural production from those who have the mercenary souls needed to take it (me again!), and they half heartedly manage when they can be bothered, until a western technocrat jingles some keys at them loudly enough that they stop eg. plowing a trillion dollars into impossible megaprojects wouldn't even make sense in the post scarcity future.
If tomorrow all the oil in the world vanished, after the dust settled Russia would still be Russia, the USA would still be the USA, Iran would still be Iran, Venezuela would still be Venezuela, Canada would still be Canada, and the gulf arab states in question would be populated entirely by tribal nomads and ghosts.
Those are products of yeast, north africans, Persians, Persians, Peruvians, and Persians again! Three out of six of those are IRANIAN, hence my bias.
That is true. It is also true that the people of Iran are more productive than the sum of the entire population of the other gulf states, who need to import third worlders to do their physical labor and europeans/americans to do their intellectual labor; which populations are prohibited from entering into their society.
If that isn't the essence of degenerate decadence, I don't know what is.
Mentally bookmarked; thanks fellow annoying western tourist king.
The barriers are all legal and paper based, which are actually more real than gross physicality it turns out.
I don't think you properly comprehended my post, /u/self_made_human humans post, or Marx's posts (He definitely had the cursed and fiery soul of a post-er).
I did the thing the migrant laborers he is describing did! I made the choice to work for 'slave wages' etc etc etc so forth! I rationally decided it was better for me to be exploited in the first world than the third, given my value was gonna be extracted anyway I might as well be in the place it gets extracted to!
And also, Marx was super pro-industrialization! You are imagining some 11 trillion people murdered by communism chicago school Trotskyist propaganda bullshit, the dude himself thought that capitalism was up to that point the most important and powerful social technology humans had ever invented, he just thought "Hey, this system is going to produce alienation and exploitation as an externality of unleashing the productive forces of each individual guided by the market, which will inevitably destabilize the relationships of production much like the feudalistic system from which it sprung" and what do you fucking know, the thing that was obvious in retrospect but prophetic at the time keeps trying to happen when the technocrats get their hands slapped off the wheel by some populist mouthbreather.
Consider the way shit works without first imagining a just world or a historical narrative or the axiom derived idea that anyone deserves anything at all: It is inarguably the case that exploitation is built in to the system bones out, it just so happens to be that it is better than what came before.
Some day capitalism will get out competed and crushed by some other system of arranging who gets what for what, and the people of that better world will look at us like we look at the illiterate dirt grubbing serfs of past centuries, wondering how we could ever live like that, is the point.
It turns out that shit continued after the 90's after all. Fukuyama BTFO historically.
This is where Marx gets to stick is big hairy face in the door and yell "See! SEE! I fucking told you!", he would probably use those words exactly I think.
I remember my time breaking rocks in the hot sun, or in my case doing some fun child labor picking coffee cherries in 100% humidity/91 d*F for what worked out to be a dollar per 40 kilos, and I gotta say: the exploitation was there. Do not recommend.
Eventually, I got to crawl around in attics dragging wires around and what have you, making 20 dollars an hour (until i learned what the boss charged for my labor, after which I realized if I got 5 hours of work a week on my own, I would come out ahead over 40 hours with the boss. How's that for bullshit?), and the exploitation remained.
Now, I get to do the exploiting, get to crush humans in a big wine press until the juice runs clear, but even worse: I give my money to a guy, who gives it to a guy, who gives it to a firm, who runs the press by proxy by proxy by proxy, and there is the exploitation. I choose not to feel bad about it, because what am I supposed to do? Cry into my big pile of money? Would that help anyone, particularly?
Exploitation is inherent in the system we occupy. Pretending otherwise is the domain of weak hearted libs who want to believe it can be made kind, or cowardly cons who pretend that there is some sort of virtue in breaking your back but ooh ahhh ouch I have bone spurs it can't be me, or some third group that intersects both political tendencies that get off on the third hand sadism of it all and never imagine it might happen to them or their kids, closing their eyes to the facts that inevitably, the wheel will come back around.
I'm not subject to rule by the UN, so I say fuck these places in particular. They can send a blue helmet to stand outside my house and shake their head disapprovingly if they feel like it.
Before going to the middle east, finish out europe/asia/ go to Romania/Bulgaria and do the ancient painted monastery loop from cluj to brasov/ go to plovdiv and veliko tarnovo to see some OLD christian sites.
If you've been everywhere else: Trust your heart. I still need to get to poland, cambodia and most of china before I think of doing middle eastern tourist shit.
No, bucharest is great if you aren't so tiktok pilled you can't deal with old stuff that isn't perfectly aesthetic; beautiful churches/arcades/opera house, totally insane palatial monument to being a dumbass you can visit, the people are nice as heck (to me, but my vibes are immaculate in person. I save all the poison for the internet.)
It just happens to be the place where; after dark; I had one beer over my tolerance; and then was chased by stray dogs up an unfinished road bridge. It's the funniest thing that has happened to me while traveling to relate in text form. Unless you get drunk and do dumb shit late at night you'll be fine.
I got a culture war hot take for ya'll in the dying hours of this thread while I marinate infront of a screen on account of I fell off a fucking ladder and rolled my ankle like a QUA-SAUN'T:
Qualification before I even start: obviously its bad if anyone is killed, and I would prefer if none of this happened, or if it did happen it stayed as geographically isolated as possible, but given that it hasn't:
I am not fan of Iran or it's ruling class, but if I had to pick between them and the gulf states, I'd pick them every time. The gulf states are full of degenerate lazy assholes, run by people who are dumb as shit outside their little lanes, ruling over people who are parasitic insects on the global economy, and I don't give a shit what happens to them or anyone who chooses to live there. It is the worst place I have ever been payed to go, I would rather go back to bucharest and get chased down a half finished bridge by stray dogs then spend another hour in Dubai, and anyone who likes it has no taste; a crime worse than being a bastard.
What the fuck is even the point of these places? At least Switzerland and Singapore have some class as they wash your blood money; I just don't want to hear another dude talk about how nice his place in dubai is. Bitch, Dubai is rich person Mcdonalds, be a real man and get you a place in Macau and another in Monaco and a third in Sun Valley.
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Sorry, missed this at the time, but I liked reading it so here: a late response in kind in honor of intresting prose.
They ain't doing shit, what they have is the consent of the people who actually do shit to pretend to own the land the go juice comes out of; as opposed to Iran who owns their go juice land by their own blood and effort.
Much like those jagoff fantasies of a shitty writer and welfare leach, the Gulf state imagine themselves captains of industry when they are pathetic ticks living and dying by the consent of their betters; the great historical cultures of the world that walk their goat paths and deign to not instantly obliterate them.
They took their great gift and turned it into ashes and CO2; they received their inheritance of 5 talents and built a glittering babylon on sand, the great whore of the world who accepts all abominations. Where is their world bestriding colossus? Who builds their great monuments, forges their weapons, who is it even who constructed the substrate of their society? It's not called the Petro Riyal or Dihram.
Unless it changes, when it gets destroyed the world will continue turning, having gained nothing and lost nothing. The great river of crude and trade and lucer will lurch and slosh until it finds it's new level, and collect into new tributaries and oxbows and lakes, and the opportunity to rise will have been squandered on libidinal ephemera.
Damn you and damn all like you who worship mediocrity and pretend it is virtue.
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