This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This whole post against fairness as a cardinal virtue is about how it's bad for things to be unfair.
See the bit about nature, red in tooth and claw, the ultimate copout Hobbes introduced into the world for people who enjoy the current structure to use against anyone who tries to change it.
See the bit about Tyrants trying to enforce fairness. This is another appeal to nature, to the idea that the current state of the world is preferable in some way because it is natural, and it would be what, bad? Unfair? To try to change it.
If the world was actually the way it these ideas said it was, nobody would be able to write this post about it. There would be no wringing of hands about tyrants forcing society at gunpoint to allow women the right to vote and own property, as if property and voting sprung for nature. You would instead be living in Rousseau's state of nature, a solitary wanderer in the woods.
All those appeals to the past, or the future, or nature, are also appeals to emotion specifically the feeling you get when someone switches something on you or cuts in line, appeals to the feeling you get when it kinda seems unfair.
You can't avoid it. Much like UNO came with your Xbox, fairness came packaged with your prefrontal cortex.
So what is your defense against people and their prefrontal cortexes acting on the impulse that it's fair to destroy you? Obviously you'd do something to stop or prevent this from happening.
That which should be destroyed by fairness should be?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link