site banner
PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   25056 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 18, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

So, to get more evidence for the claim that he was a mix of left and right...

Feb 20, 2018, posting on a thread attacking a politician liked by the NRA, in /r/BlueMidTerm2018:

I am always surprised at the rabid rhetoric that gets thrown around by Democrats when it comes to the gun issue. I vote Democrat almost always, fall pretty far to the left on the political spectrum, but since I grew up in a rural area and am a soldier by trade, I own firearms and have a responsible relationship with them. In the last few days I have been accused of being party to the murder of children, a tangential supporter of the NRA (an organization that disgusts me), and an all around terrible person.

These accusations don't bug me, since I'm a rational guy and understand that people are emotional over the issue, but it certainly isn't going to win anyone over. But I do believe the party (especially its more urbanized base) has a real problem with this discussion, and until they fix it will continue to lose rural areas they might otherwise easily win.

Apr 30, 2016, in /r/politics:

As a rabidly anti-Hillary guy, it's pisses me off that what you just stated needs to be said. The woman has many faults, but this Byrd shit is ridiculous and doesn't hold up to 10 seconds worth of scrutiny.

Dec 31, 2015:

I'm 31, served in Iraq and Afghanistan, have worked since getting out of the service, happily pay my taxes understanding that it benefits society as a whole and therefore me as well. I'm supporting Bernie because I feel sacrifices must be made to build a better society and a heavier tax burden is worth it (not to mention that simple reform can help pay for these policies).

In other words: Fuck your condescending comment, you fucking asshat.

And finally, a life story posted May 31, 2011. Lot of stuff in here, but I will highlight one thing to emphasize my point:

I was raised in New England in a pretty liberal and progressive family. My mother is a bit of a hippie, and my father is a very bright guy who never bought in to the bullshit that accompanies sending young men off to war. He became a teacher during Vietnam to avoid the draft, and imbued in me a sense of cynicism when it comes to why wars are fought. However, for as long as I can remember I wanted to be a professional soldier. For many years I have tried to come up with an explanation as to why, but have always drawn a blank. It was simply what I was destined to do.

As a kid, I just liked playing war. When I got a little older, into high school, I became a voracious reader of all things combat related, and developed a much deeper need to experience war for myself. Oddly, I was also pretty politically active, which led to my protesting the Iraq war before it kicked off (I found myself fighting in Fallujah within 2 years. The irony.) That mixture of political awareness and the deep seated drive to experience war to its fullest brought me to steps of a Marine Corps recruiting office.

I was accepted into a pretty decent east coast university after high school, and both my parents really wanted me to attend. Knowing, but not fully understanding, my need to put on a uniform they tried to get me to go to school first and then take a commission. Instead I deferred a year and went backpacking around Europe and North Africa, attempting to "find myself". After 6 months, I still felt as devoid of adventure as I had when I left, so I returned to the states. During my time abroad, I had continued my research as to how I was going to get myself to war. I bounced between the Army, for the Ranger regiment, and even flirted with the idea of running off the France to join the Legion. But the more I read, the more I felt the Marine Corps was the place for me. Although known as knuckle dragging brainwashed murderers, the history of the Marine Corps instead represented a service that was known for its outside the box thinking as well as its aggression. Men like "Hard-head" Hanneken, Smedley Butler, and "Brute" Krulak were much more the warrior intellectuals that I wanted to be. The Marine Corps history was full of small bush fire wars, quite similar to what I saw as our near martial future, in which the Corps had acquitted itself admirably. On top of all this, the Marine Corps also has one hell of a reputation as a hardcore fighting force. If I was going to fight, I was going to do it with the best.

I also wanted to fight soon. Taking a commission would have required a degree, and almost 2 years of training, and I was making this decision winter of 2003-2004 when Iraq was just beginning to look like the intense insurgency it was to become. I had been waiting for my war since I was about 8, and I sure as hell wasn't going to miss it because of school. Also, in all my reading I had always identified more with the enlisted men, living the hard life in the mud and the the gore with shitty pay and few breaks. To me, it almost seemed as becoming an officer was copping out, avoiding the misery. Officers are also generally not the ones who go through the door first, and that's who I wanted to be. So in February 2004 I walked in to a Marine Corps recruiting office. I told the recruiter I wanted 2 things, the infantry and to be in Iraq within the year. Now, I know now that only one of those was a viable request, but the recruiter told me he couldn't do alot, but he was pretty damned sure he could get me those. Sure enough, he wasn't wrong. I shipped to Parris Island on March 1, 2004, became a Machinegunner (0331) over the summer at SOI and reported in to 3rd Battalion 8th Marines that fall. I deployed on my first tour in January of 2005 to Fallujah. I saw intense combat there and in Ramadi the following year, and finished off my 4 years in the Corps with a sea deployment to the Horn of Africa and the Gulf. I left the Corps after making Sergeant in 4 years to attend school for International Affairs and language. I am still enlisted, but now in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan. I love this job more than I ever thought I would, and my time in the Marine Corps was exactly what I had hoped it would be. I fought hard with tough men, and did the best I could to help the people living in the war ravaged country that surrounded us. It shaped me into the soldier I am today.

I realize this isn't the standard "I went to war and now I'm broken and angry and depressed" story, but it is mine and it is true. But I do not want you to take is as some kind of cheerleading to join the Marines. You had better really want it, or you should look elsewhere. I know many men who did not have the same experience as me, good men who simply responded to fighting, killing, and losing friends differently. So you'd better be damned certain this is what you want to do, because if it isn't you will regret it a hell of alot.

Some people here have advised you to be an officer because it's an easier life and the pay is better. If that is what you want, fuck off and stay a civilian. Shitty officers come from the mass of spoiled kids who want to play they game without the misery. Frankly, I would recommend enlisting first and then seeing if it is actually something you want to make a career out of. If it is, get out, go to school as a civilian, and then take a commission upon graduation. Save your possible future Marines/Soldiers/Airmen/Sailors from your shitty selfish leadership, which it will be if those are your reasons for commissioning.

Good luck, I hope my long rambling helps you in some way. Just remember, if it is something you really want, well, fucking go for it.

I think this guy has been pretty consistently what he says he is right now. Maybe with more swearing 15 years ago, more gay jokes. But even on the gay jokes... this was posted on Oct 23, 2013:

You, Sir, sound like an awesomely masculine gay dude I would love to pound beers and clean guns with. Which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for most straight guys.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats