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The vast majority of anti-trans people are not enacting minimum standards to use toilets or do other sex-segregated activities: they're banning trans people completely, regardless of how well they pass, how much effort they've put in, or how sincere they are. That is the mainstream anti-trans view. Your view, if you have described it accurately, is fringe.
I don't propose banning trans people (whatever that means). I don't propose rounding trans people and herding them into camps. I propose making people use the public facilities and compete in the sporting events that concord with their sex. I'm not saying "trans people can't compete in sporting events ever"; I'm saying "if they wish to compete in sporting events, trans people must compete in the sporting events corresponding to their sex, just like everyone else".
Read the entire sentence. They're banning trans people completely from using toilets or doing other sex-segregated activities. Let's set aside sports and consider only toilets. In what way are cis women harmed by sharing toilets with passing trans women? Note that women's toilets don't have urinals, only stalls. Users will never see other people's genitals. If the trans woman passes, other users won't even know she is trans. On the other hand, sharing the toilet with a passing trans man might actually be unpleasant.
...unless they use the one given to them right there, same as everyone else.
It's like saying that you're banning me from using the toilet because I'm a compulsive germophobe and you refuse to have the bathroom extensively fumigated after each person goes in. The facilities are there for trans people, they're allowed to use them, they're throwing a massive tantrum at the way they're allowed to use them. That is not 'banning'.
No, it's not the same as everyone else. They're the only group being banned from using the toilets concordant with their gender.
And if they knew trans men existed, they'd want to exclude them from both men's (because "they're women") and women's (because they look like men) spaces. This is not hypothetical. Regarding last year's landmark UK Supreme Court ruling:
That ruling is bullshit caused by the UK government's inability to ever tell women no, and I do not support it in any way.
As for the rest, trans people are permitted to use the toilets concordant with their sex, as are we all. You know this is what I meant. You may disapprove of my invisible rider that this is a good thing, but saying that trans people are being banned from using the toilet is straight up 100% rubbish and you know it. If you would like to argue that forcing trans people to take two steps to the right and use the toilet associated with their sex is evil, please go ahead and do so.
So what would your preferred policy be on the question of trans men?
You should have been able to infer from context that that was what I meant. The person I was originally responding to suggested anti-trans people just want reasonable minimum standards for trans people to use their preferred toilets (which I would support), but that's false: they want to ban trans people from using their preferred toilets completely.
They're women who want to be (treated like) men. As with trans women, sometimes we can harmlessly and voluntarily indulge this desire, other times not.
The original poster was pointing out that saying, "look, we understand your desire to behave like / be considered as the opposite sex, and don't wish to give you shit over it or impede your daily life, but we both know that biologically this is not true and we need you to use the toilets associated with your biological sex" is considered just as TERFy as "y'all are freaks and perverts, take that dress off".
People are sensitive to the biological sex of the people in whose proximity they are expected to take their clothes off and make themselves vulnerable, especially when that space is by necessity closed off and unmonitored. Therefore, we require people to use the toilet (right there, free, easily accessible) associated with their own sex.
This sensitivity has been heightened by cases like Isla Bryson, the rapist turned trans lady, very blatantly discovering transness to get into female spaces, and heightened even more by the complete inability of many authorities and activists to even acknowledge this possibility, much less to make any plans to mitigate it.
You wade in going 'people are being BANNED' as if this is some terrible deprivation of liberty, and I genuinely don't know if you use this language because the actual requirements are so trivial and so uncontroversial that you need to punch it up a bit, or because you have worked yourself up so much about the issue that you unconsciously act as if trans people are being made to wait on the pavement until their bladders explode.
The original post said:
Which implies that if someone does make a sincere attempt to present as a woman, they should be allowed to use the women's toilet. I agree that there should be standards to prevent bad actors and we shouldn't just take people at their word. But the original post was presenting this as a mainstream anti-trans opinion when it is, in fact, fringe, and most anti-trans activists want to, as you described, ban trans people from using their preferred toilets regardless of how well they pass, how much effort they've put in, or how sincere they are.
In what way is "you're allowed to pretend you're a different gender, but we'll still treat you as your birth gender" better than "you're not allowed to be your preferred gender"? Yes, that is just as TERF-y.
Women are being forced to use men's toilets and men are being forced to use women's toilets, or even being banned from using public toilets completely. This is obviously a bad thing.
You didn't address the question of trans men, specifically, if they should be allowed to use women's facilities if it makes women uncomfortable because they look like men.
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