This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Let's look into the recent police video that's been going viral on Twitter.
In the video, a lone man is being harassed by a group of foreigners, and they knock him to the ground and hit him. Even before he gets up, a nearby police officer, who has been doing nothing up until then, tackles him into the wall. Understandably he resists somewhat. As a result of these events, the victim in this incident has been arrested and charged, and is now having the book thrown at him. Meanwhile, no effort at all was put into catching the original attackers. The police have released a statement saying they "have no concerns over the officer's actions." They have also asked for people not to share the footage.
This event seems to echo the vibes of a recent incident in Germany where a police officer tackled a bystander, getting himself stabbed to death by a terrorist as a result. It also seems to vibe with the murder of Henry Nowak, where the mortally wounded victim was arrested by the police while his killer was right there gloating.
In the context of culture war it seems like the "right wing" has firmly swung against the police in Europe, which is a big difference from in the United States, where a large portion of the right still is on side "back the blue". Of course there is still an anti-law enforcement wing of the right in the United States, pointing at politically motivated prosecutions, as well as the kid gloves for left-affiliated rioters. I also haven't heard about any similar incidents in the US where where police intervened in a situation on the "wrong" side (though plenty of police brutality in confrontations between police and others). And often American departments are very willing to throw their officers under the rug when the do something that looks bad.
I think to the public, there's a huge difference in police arresting, beating, and killing right wingers, versus being seen as taking the side of a group. Because it's no longer state vs crime (with a sprinkle of biased treatment) but directly being seen as taking a side, though the left has always seen the authority as evil nazi thugs.
Not sure if anything will come of this trend or it's a nothingburger. Maybe increased riots and disorder among the native population, who have historically been quite docile in the last century.
I don't quite understand how it has come to this. In Germany at least the far-right has a convenient theory that they get this as punishment for WWII. That the victorious Allies ensured that Germany, by becoming multicultural, will never re-develop that ethno-nationalistic, militaristic ethos they had pre-WWII. But Britain won WWII. France won WWII. Who pushed them to do this?
I think the EU generally has been resting on its laurels. There was an assumption that the status quo which prevailed since the cold war would hold forever. That free trade in a rules based world is so profitable for everyone that there is no way anyone would want to jeopardize it with war. Eventually, other countries would see the light and follow suit. Once they did, they would be rewarded with free trade and be welcomed as an ally. It was okay to be dependent on the US for security and Russia for gas, as they would have too much to loose to abuse their leverage.
This assumption extended to immigration. Why would you move to a country only to ruin it? It makes no sense. Obviously, immigrants would assimilate to the local culture as the resulting standard of living is far superior to where they came from.
Under this worldview, providing foreign aid, outsourcing manufacturing to China, and accepting massive amounts of asylum seekers made sense. I don't think either the elites or a majority of the population really considered that things might get worse. The idea that people might take our resources and only to turn against us was just not a narrative that many people believed.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link