This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I recall the excellent Westworld, Season 1 (and deny that anything else came after that) that the dividing line of sentience is a mostly illusory one: that it is a emergent property of the self-concept, of the internal monologue. That notions of a soul may either be chauvinist hubris: or perhaps God will endow them with one, as Providence dictates.
Since there's no way to ascertain that any individual has consciousness from without for certain, we have to extend the benefit of the doubt to our fellow human beings. Is it possible for superintelligent AGIs, on the line of Helios from DEUS EX? Uncertain. But I am fairly certain that LLMs will reach human capacity in my lifetime, or at the very least reach a level of sociability that it will be monstrous to treat them any less than equals. If the technology stalls out at that level it will still very be much worth it: I will reserve at least 16gb of vram for my new friends.
Westworld is materialist propaganda of course. But S1 was still art because you could simply watch it as a tragedy of humans masturbating with defective robots and fooling themselves into loving them to the point that it destroys them.
But I must ask you: who has more hubris, the man who sees his own ability as unique, or the man who thinks he has the power to elevate all to his condition?
Because that story was also about that.
More options
Context Copy link
Ultimately that's really the point of Turing's Imitation Game. It was not to be a real serious test to use as a measure. It illustrates that we are not even able to discern sentience in other humans, we just assume it, and that if we afford the same leeway to machines, we will eventually end up with machines that have just as good a claim to it as other humans do to us. And as early as ELIZA, once it was clear machines could manage grammar and human language, it was obvious that eventually, without even needing a real paradigm change, we'd end up with machines that would be capable of fooling us.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link