site banner
PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   9346 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 13, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

My instant CTRL-F: Max Martin. Neither list has him. Honestly, as such, I consider at least the 100 list to be objectively wrong, but I also consider the critic list to also be wrong. I'm not surprised exactly since readers really don't pay attention to songwriting credits, just the actual singers, but it's still pretty impressive when the wisdom of the crowds fails so badly. But you'd think expert critics wouldn't have that issue and would be more aware?

Okay, I'll admit that I'm a bit more of a fan of pop music than some out there - a lot of people don't seem to want to acknowledge that something poppy and high-charting is therefore "good", even though that's kind of the obvious suggestion. However, this man literally has the record!! And it's not just one era, this man has a 30 year career.

Martin has written or co-written 30 Billboard Hot 100 number-one singles; 28 of which he has produced or co-produced, an all-time record for the chart as of June 2026

If you expand it just a bit to top 20 songs and allow co-production only? "Since 1995, Martin has written, co-written, or co-produced 121 Billboard Hot 100 top 20 hits." One hundred and twenty one!! You may recognize a few of these, and I'll bold unique artists so it's clear that although he leans on a few, he's been all over the pop scene:

1998 – "...Baby One More Time" by Britney Spears
2000 – "It's Gonna Be Me" by NSYNC
2008 – "I Kissed a Girl" by Katy Perry
2008 – "So What" by Pink
2009 – "My Life Would Suck Without You" by Kelly Clarkson
2009 – "3" by Britney Spears
2010 – "California Gurls" by Katy Perry featuring Snoop Dogg
2010 – "Teenage Dream" by Katy Perry
2010 – "Raise Your Glass" by Pink
2011 – "Hold It Against Me" by Britney Spears
2011 – "E.T." by Katy Perry featuring Kanye West
2011 – "Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.)" by Katy Perry
2012 – "Part of Me" by Katy Perry
2012 – "One More Night" by Maroon 5
2012 – "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" by Taylor Swift
2013 – "Roar" by Katy Perry
2013 – "Dark Horse" by Katy Perry featuring Juicy J
2014 – "Shake It Off" by Taylor Swift
2014 – "Blank Space" by Taylor Swift
2015 – "Bad Blood" by Taylor Swift featuring Kendrick Lamar
2015 – "Can't Feel My Face" by The Weeknd
2016 – "Can't Stop the Feeling!" by Justin Timberlake
2019 – "Blinding Lights" by The Weeknd
2021 – "Save Your Tears" by The Weeknd and Ariana Grande
2021 – "My Universe" by Coldplay and BTS
2024 – "Yes, And?" by Ariana Grande
2024 – "We Can't Be Friends (Wait for Your Love)" by Ariana Grande
2025 – "The Fate of Ophelia" by Taylor Swift
2026 – "Opalite" by Taylor Swift
2026 - "Hate That I Made You Love Me" by Ariana Grande

It's like not including Warren Buffett in your list of greatest living investors, or Spielberg from your list of greatest living directors, or Agatha Christie from greatest authors, you know? The man literally holds the record, judged by commercial success, for being the greatest songwriter of all time, let alone the "living" restriction. I honestly cannot wrap my mind around it.

But no, these songs are too... what? Too catchy? Too popular? Lmao. I know "greatness" and "popularity" are not really quite synonymous, but surely quantity has a quality of its own. How can he not even make the top 100? It's frankly bizarre. It's not like he's one of those parasites attaching his name to a ton of things either, by all accounts he's actually responsible for some of the most famous hooks himself.

The issue with Martin is that it's well known in the industry that he makes songwriting credits a condition of his production contract whether he actually writes the songs or not, so there's some question of how much of those songs he actually contributed to.

It’s a list of American songwriters. Max Martin (real name Karl Martin Sandberg) is Swedish. The closest American equivalent would arguably be Dr. Luke.

You have to add two spaces at the end of a line in order to create a line break.

Thanks, I thought it was only the double return, that's helpful. Though I went back and forth if I wanted it listicled or not.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats