This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
(Since Trump vs Trudeau/Carney is pure culture war, this counts) Every now and again there are throwaway lines in comments here about how Canada is a bad ally, or incompetent, or just generally bad-and-should-feel-bad. And believe me, lots of us do. But those Canadians who disapprove of the direction the country has taken usually do so for internal political reasons (Justin Trudeau, immigration, house prices, indigenous rights-gone-wild, virtue-signalling gun laws, etc). The comments I'm talking about are usually hinting at foreign affairs, but even the most self-hating Canadian usually believes Canada is internationally respected. Please offer below your critiques/complaints about Canada from a foreign affairs/relations standpoint.
From a Malaysian, currently living in Australia: I usually don't really think about Canada all too much since pretty little of what it does affects me. I have been over there, and kind of have to agree with @OliveTapenade in that I think of it as being like a less belligerent and less polarised US with more legacy allegiance to Britain, with the (sort of hilarious) quirk that the nation's self-conception is largely defined around not being the US despite sharing a very large number of cultural characteristics with their more powerful neighbour. Perhaps the differences may seem large if all you know is the North American cultural sphere, but to the rest of the world the distinction is not that clear. Canada is really just not all that distinctive internationally nor is it that prominent when it comes to foreign affairs.
When it comes to being "internationally-respected", I honestly would not say I respect Canada that much. This may be harsh but for me to respect countries an important factor is not geopolitical leaning, but general competence, and that includes how it handles internal concerns. Its ability to build infrastructure, deliver on QoL things like safety and convenience, and just generally make canny and efficient decisions are all important. When I think about the sheer tragedy that is Toronto's public transport - they insist on building Transit City-like Potemkin light rail transport all over the city, then spend 10+ years and billions of dollars to build a single line that's barely faster than the bus lane it replaced, THEN promise to try and fix the failure through methods like signal priority as if that isn’t just duct-taping over a serious structural issue - "respect" is not what comes to mind. When I think about Vancouver's little experiment in decriminalisation which quickly made them the fentanyl capital of North America (the DTES looks downright post-apocalyptic), "respect" is definitely not what comes to mind.
I can respect China in spite of it being a very disruptive geopolitical actor because it possesses a level of competence and state capacity that is currently allowing it to eat everybody else’s lunch. I can't, however, respect when a country seems incapable of fixing simple issues. On a base level, respect at least requires that you be a serious actor capable of getting your affairs in order at home (and abroad), preferably with a telos that amounts to more than simply coasting off your current comfortable position and assuming you have endless latitude to absorb inefficiency, dysfunction and policy failure at home.
To be fair this is my opinion on a lot of Europe as well, so Canada certainly isn't the only one being subject to this withering assessment.
But then, who isn't? California had those exact fuck-ups, all of them, in the recent past. So does the east coast (albeit a bit further back). And in between them, there's pockets of insane structural poverty,
Australia also seems to do it's best to squander an entire continent full of natural resources while crippling itself politically. With a starting position like that, being China's mine seems to be a substandard outcome. Tragic loss of state capacity seems to be the story all throughout the West.
I'd just take that as a sad fact, and wait for China to shakes us out of that collective stupor (might take a catastrophic loss to accomplish that, so let's not wait in hopeful expectation).
Until then, I try to see the good. With Canada, I associate Bombardier, oil sands infrastructure and CANDU reactors. Universities of Toronto, Waterloo, McGill. They can still built, if they'd wanted to. They'll retain that ability for a while.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link