This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Situational Awareness was asinine and premised on much shorter timelines. No way you're having 500 GW of AI capacity by 2030 no matter what regulatory climate – you start hitting all sorts of earlier bottlenecks. Due to shortages in the supply chain, Nvidia and others have been forced to expand their qualifications to Chinese companies, and even those are strained now. Eg there's a huge issue with Vera Rubin PCBs. It basically doesn't matter how many chips can be produced or how eager Americans are to permit new construction. The scale of industry as such in the world is just not enough for AI capex demands.
But those other bottlenecks also create externalities for everyone else, essentially increasing the prices of any products they use anywhere down the distribution chain. Given a long enough time-span with stable demand the supply could catch up to meet it and regular consumers, but with AI advancing so rapidly we're not really giving anything any time to settle down.
well, of course it's systemically disruptive, and in particular consumers are getting priced out by competition for the capacity upstream of consumer goods. My point is solely that building up 500GW worth of AI compute in the US by 2030 is so hard physically that the anti-datacenter folks are almost a rounding error. It's a planetary supply bottleneck. I suspect that even if China could book all of TSMC they wouldn't be able to do that either.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link