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I wanted to come back to this but after a busy weekend I always find my interest in old arguments evaporating. I appreciate your sincerity and I apologize for those times when I come off as harsh -- I try to be earnest but I can't be sure I always come off as such, especially with a reputation. I think your concerns about borders as such are fairly reasonable and I can understand a lot of reticence when dealing with America. But also, Trump asking to purchase Greenland privately was the nicest that that was ever going to go, nobody in Europe is going to convince the Americans that even asking to do a land deal is inherently rude when that's essentially how America was built. And, respectfully, I think a lot of Europe's insecurity of of its own making.
I emphasize the Europe criticism not to simply be mean but to actually point to a wide gap between us. When I talk to my European friends they say things like, "I love how Americans do business, but why doesn't Elon Musk pay taxes?" or "The CIA already proved that Iran was never building nukes," or "JD Vance can't win in 2028 because he's alienated too many Ukrainians in Pennsylvania". I hear things that just aren't true, or that the American media breathlessly reported that most Americans don't believe at all or don't even care about enough to doubt, and that the Europeans thought they had to take seriously. A friend accosted me about "Moscow Marge" and when I asked what the hell he was talking about replied, "Oh, come on, you're smart, you have to know about Putin." I hear so many things that aren't true taken seriously, and this is how I understand most of Europe's freak-out over Trump wanting to buy Greenland. They sent dog-sleds to Nuuk. I read that and think they just don't understand America, at all, and most of the problem is the things they think they know.
Thank you, I appreciate the thought. I feel similarly - I have a backlog of replies from @FCfromSSC and others that deserve thoughtful responses but my emotions have cooled and I don't really want to get into more arguments this second.
I owe you an apology as well, my OP in this thread was not polite and was in the tone of somebody spoiling for a fight.
Certainly many Europeans are very ignorant, or mindkilled, just as much so as many Americans or more. And there are enough smug Europeans and Anglos (many of them my friends) that I have to bite my tongue on a regular basis just to get on.
I think there is also a surprisingly large cultural gap that get masked by the appearance of a common culture, which is what you seem to be saying also. Americans and Europeans think they understand each other and share the same moral intuitions, much more than they would if they were talking to somebody from Kazakhstan or Laos, and they're often wrong about that. A discussion for another time!
I'd definitely be interested in them if you ever wish to continue the thread. My replies this time around were prompted at least partially by your comments on the subject some months ago. These things take time.
Thank you! I'll see what I can do.
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