site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 28, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The dependency of the claim that the Nazis "attempted to exterminate all the Jews" on the gas chamber myth

What do you think the Einsatzgruppen were for? Or do you dispute their existence, too?

I am amazed that you have extruded so many words and still avoided answering my question. If you don't believe the Nazis murdered those millions of Jews, why wouldn't they? If your claim is "They didn't actually want those Jews dead; slaughtering millions of civilians was too evil even for them, however much they loathed those civilians' race" I would like you to write it plainly. If your claim is "They might have wanted those Jews dead in the abstract, but the logistics were just too hard to figure out and/or they needed them alive for their slave labor so long as the war effort was ongoing even if they wanted them dead in the long term" I would like you to write that plainly. There will be follow-up questions depending on which answer you pick, if either, but unless you do answer plainly - preferably without using the words "gas", "chamber", or "shower" - I am going to lose any remaining faith that you are actually taking this topic seriously.

The Einsatzgruppen was for security behind the front-lines, in particular security from partisans and partisan actions. Jews were heavily involved in the partisan war effort against the Germans and that was extremely harmful for the German war effort.

The Einsatzgruppen likewise received no order for the general extermination of the Jews like you asserted in your original post. The Einsatzgruppen did receive a general extermination order of Soviet Commissars- the infamous Commissar order. But that only contrasts what a real "extermination policy* looks like - i.e. we have documents giving the order, whereas there is no document ordering the extermination of all the Jews because that wasn't real.

If you don't believe the Nazis murdered those millions of Jews, why wouldn't they?

Well for one, Jewish labor was crucial for the German war effort. Documents show, including intercepted top-secret communication out of Auschwitz, that the SS camp administration was desperate to reduce the mortality rate in these camps in order to maintain production of crucial supplies.

Secondly, deportation is a much more palatable solution than murder for the public and international bodies. One of the reasons Jews are so resentful against all of Europe is because of how willing the nations of Europe, foremost Poland, were to actually hand over Jews for deportation. Deportation is simply an easier solution than murder and makes it vastly more likely to motivate cooperation among all involved in the effort, including cooperation from Jews themselves. It is well-known that the Nazis collaborated with the Zionists in facilitation the migration of German Jews to Palestine.

Try to imagine the controversy that exists in the United States over the deportation of illegal aliens. Would it make any sense for even the most diehard deportation advocate to say "hey guys, instead of deportation how about we diabolically murder them using an exotic killing method that so happens to resemble ubiquitous delousing procedures."

Obviously no person who actually wanted all the Illegal Aliens in the United States removed would advocate for an extermination camp. Public support and cooperation is hard enough for deportation, throw in an "extermination camp" and it's totally untenable.

The Israelis know this too.

If you don't believe the Israelis have a plan to exterminate all Palestinians, then why wouldn't they? The answer to that question is the same as the answer to your question. And the irony is that Israel is clearly angling to implement the (real) Nazi Final Solution on the Gazans. And by that I don't mean Israel is planning to lure the Gazans into gas chambers disguised as shower rooms. I mean Israel wants to deport them.

But the Holocaust Consensus is the side that claims German policy with respect to the Jews changed radically and essentially overnight switched from "deportation" as the Final Solution to "extermination" (although there's of course no documentary evidence for this at all). The Revisionist side is merely that the "Final Solution" as such was a continuation of the deportation policies. If you want to play the "why wouldn't they" I would ask you instead "why would they?" Why would their longstanding policy radically change from "Deportation" to "Extermination"?