This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm going to defend "tough pragmatic policies advocated by conservatives" as being orthogonal to Jesus's message. Jesus didn't say to have high federal taxes and he didn't advocate Democratic border policy or trans women in women's sports. Such things wouldn't be coherent issues 2000 years ago. The assertion I see on places like reddit that modern progressives represent Jesus's message is quite strange.
Jesus preached tolerance for those different that you, and to stand by your beliefs (specifically the belief in God, but to an atheist this easily generalizes).
Helping immigrants and trans people easily fits under this umbrella. Jesus also famously claimed that it is near impossible for a rich man to get into heaven. This is easily understood as "Rich people are generally evil". Not only does match onto "eat the rich", it also fits with a tax policy that takes money from the rich and distributes it to those in need. You may disagree that government programs are good at this, but the leftist view is that private individuals are even worse and that concentrating the wealth in the hands of few individuals will only mean the poorest of society have even less.
Contrast this with conservative worldviews which are often strongly hierarchical, seeks to keep people in their current social classes, and does not wish to help people that differ significantly from what they know (immigrants and trans in this case). I think the Redditers do actually have a point here.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link