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And if a male rapist is put in a female prison, then it's an even greater failure of the prison system, and it does have something to do with trans people.
This claim (hypothetical male rapist becomes trans, is transferred to women's prison without care or thought, then commences raping other defenseless women inmates who are all smaller and weaker than her) suggests a whole host of hypothetical realities without evidence, and then you go on to suggest something vague about trans people in general.
An uncharitable reading of your post is that rapists being put in with any prison population is worse than trans people being put in with their corresponding prison population. That's a wild claim and not at all reasonable. Trans people won't become trans to switch prisons.
I am actually curious though-- is there any evidence for your line of thinking? How many trans rapists are there? I've heard of one case, and I haven't heard any of the details (like it's super important to our discussion to know if the rapist continued raping people or if they became a model inmate). One case (or even a hundred) doesn't rise to the level of being able to generalize about trans people.
I also would like to know more about how inmates in various contexts perceive the option of becoming trans. Is it really as simple as wearing a wig?
Also, should we be incarcerating criminals based on their powerlifting totals (sum of bench press, squat, deadlift maximums) or based on reasoned analyses of their expected behavior? People raping each other in prisons is a solvable problem, and if any inmate thinks becoming trans confers an advantage, that's a solvable problem as well.
At best the rapist argument brings up a logistical issue for prison operators.
Ah yes, very hypothetical. It has literally never happened.
Please substantiate your claim that I have suggested anything about trans people in general.
What would you accept as evidence for this? It's not like I can see into the mind of the prisoners.
Gender Self-ID laws are currently making their way through Europe. In fact, you might not even need the wig.
We have never segregated prisons based on "gender", which is a novel concept, that a substantial portion of the population does not even believe in. They were always segregated based on sex, and I have not heard of a valid reason provided to change that.
Not really. We are yet to establish a valid reason for putting males in female prisons to begin with.
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How is it a greater failure? Is it because you think rape is worse when trans people do it? If so, why is that?
I don't agree with the focus on trans prison rapists as a proxy for trans issues as a whole, but the idea is it's easily preventable. If someone climbs over the guardrails on a tall monument for a cool pic and falls to their death, that's bad - but less of a failure on the part of the monument than if there are no guardrails, just an open drop, and people are tripping off.
So, if you put someone who's raped women in a womens' prison, and then they rape women ... that's easier to prevent than 'prison rape generally'.
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No, it's because I don't believe males belong in female prison, regardless of what crimes either of them commit. The fact that the crime is rape is just a cherry on top.
This seems reasonable, but do you believe this because of some moral or religious principle? Why is that the criteria for which prison to put people in?
Like what if we could contrive a scenario where a prison operator puts their trans (MtF) women prisoners in female prisons and then some metrics that the prison operator cares about get better? Like total number of rapes goes down. Or violent assaults go down. Wouldn’t allowing that policy be better than clinging to the idea that prisons should be separated by gender/sex because [insert principle here, or just status quo?].
I’m not a prison expert, so I can’t say that this contrived example in any way reflects reality, but the point I’m trying to make is that the reflexive, intuitive “trans women shouldn’t go in men’s prisons” might not reflect the complexities of the real world (Like for example a more common issue is trans women who commit crimes {after becoming trans} and then are imprisoned. Where do they go? Prison operators don’t want them raped or assaulted (they’re on hormones, so physically weaker on average and may present as more feminine).
I’m not saying that the contrived scenario matches reality, but I am curious what your response is to that idea.
Didn't you criticize me for using an evidence-free hypothetical in order to make broader point in literally the neighboring comment, when I was neither making a hypothetical, nor making a broader point? What are you doing, man?
Sex segregation is based on a rough heuristic, not a specific scenario, so I don't care about those. If you could prove beyond reasonable doubt that your heuristic involving trans women is better for the prisoners / society / whatever, I'd be open to it.
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