This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I have known a few AMWF Wasians and I think because fathers play a smaller role in childrearing than mothers the consequence is that the place they grow up in makes all the difference. For example, two common AMWF pairings are a pretty Russian woman and an affluent or cool Chinese/Korean man in an East Asian mega city, and a successful professional East Asian man in a big Western city like London or New York or San Francisco and his white wife (disproportionately middle or Northern European if from Europe, generically white if American).
Those who grow up in the West tend to grow up wholly in generic PMC culture, there is pretty much zero chance of them speaking their father’s ancestral language (whether he’s first or subsequent generation). I suspect an additional factor is that the, say, Chinese-American guy with a white wife is probably less interested in cultural continuity, the Chinese language and culture, connection to those traditions than the Chinese American man with a Chinese[-American] wife, for the same reason that would be true of any mixed pairing. Because their white moms will have predominantly white mom friendship groups, it’s likely the children will be in primarily white social circles and will not be in hyper striver extracurricular focused must-go-to-elite-college environments, although it can still happen. While Asian dads are often very ambitious for their kids, my understanding is that the actual ground-level tiger mom stuff is distinctly tiger mom, not dad.
Those who grow up in Asia can be like the above if the mother and father are part of tightly knit European or American expat circles, have no or limited local family etc. But in cases where, say, a Russian woman lives with her Chinese husband and kids in Hong Kong, and his entire extended family is there, and they are not solely international school types (they may still be private school types, but there are private schools that are predominantly expat and those that are predominantly native), it is likely the children will grow up more immersed in the paternal side culture.
There are other popular AMWF categories, I think in Australia the Filipino man - white woman pairing is apparently common. But I’m less familiar with them.
More options
Context Copy link