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Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

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Trans people go to hell unless they repent. It’s not something in gods image but a perversion

I was a Christian however, so I have had the lessons, the Sunday School, etc., Religious education classes. And I promise you, I am engaging in good faith, I am just pointing out the even from the point of view of a Christian your argument has issues.

But again, I agree from the point of view of Christianity it makes sense to say that someone transitioning is committing a sin. Agreed. But that wasn't your claim.

But that isn't the same thing as making a mockery of God. Consider that one of the responses when a loved one is murdered or dies of cancer is that God moves in mysterious ways. Indicating that even this is part of His plan. That doesn't mean the murderer wasn't sinning within the Christian context, he certainly was. It is simply the acknowledgment that all things are part of God's plan and that our role is to surrender our faith to that plan. Even things we mortals do not comprehend like untimely deaths or your son coming out as gay or your daughter as trans are part of His plan.

That doesn't mean that your son or daughter are not sinful, but it does mean that God planned that. We don't know why, the reasons are literally ineffable, despite how many words have been written trying to understand it.

Calvin:

"Calvin did not believe God to be guilty of sin, but rather he considered God inflicting sin upon his creations to be an unfathomable mystery.[54] Though he maintained God's predestination applies to damnation as well as salvation, he taught that the damnation of the damned is caused by their sin, but that the salvation of the saved is solely caused by God"

Eastern Orthodox:

"(God's) foreknowledge is unfathomable. It is enough for us with our whole heart to believe that it never opposes God's grace and truth, and that it does not infringe man's freedom. Usually this resolves as follows: God foresees how a man will freely act and makes dispositions accordingly."

Catholicism:

"God] promised not from the power of our will but from His own predestination. For He promised what He Himself would do, not what men would do. Because, although men do those good things which pertain to God’s worship, He Himself makes them to do what He has commanded; it is not they that cause Him to do what He has promised. Otherwise the fulfilment of God’s promises would not be in the power of God, but in that of men"[61]"

Arminianism:

"This means that God does not predetermine, but instead infallibly knows who will believe and perseveringly be saved. Although God knows from the beginning of the world who will go where, the choice is still with the individual."

Middle Knowledge might be the most highbrow - a kind of multiverse:

"God knew what every existing creature capable of libertarian freedom (e.g. every individual human) would freely choose to do in all possible circumstances. It then holds that based on this information, God elected from a number of these possible worlds, the world most consistent with his ultimate will, which is the actual world that we live in."

The idea that being trans (or a murderer) is both sinful AND in line with God's plan and therefore not a mockery is entirely supported by large swathes of writings about resolving the paradox of free will and God's omniscience and (therefore pre-destination of outcome). It's the only real way to tie together the opposing issues. That God both planned for Bob to be the kind of person who would want to become Anne AND that Bob commits a sin by doing so. If you aren't a Christian that is an incoherent mess, what's the difference between perfectly foreseeing the outcome of your and other peoples actions given omnipotence and setting the "rules" and planning the same? If you are a Christian, it makes sense (or at least can make sense, I know a lot of Christians who do struggle with it, which is why there have been a lot of writings about it).

But almost all extant versions of Christianity as far as I can tell (Mormons excepted if you count them as Christian) have the same basic outcome. God did plan/foresee/deliberately put/know/ you will be in this situation with these urges AND set the rules AND if you act upon them you are committing a sin. He planned it AND it is your sin to make or not. You might have failed God when you chose to sin, but saying you are making a mockery of Him, doesn't make sense. Unless every time every Christian slips into sin, they are all making a mockery of God, which therefore makes the criticism far too broad to be useful here.

The question at hand was whether this violated Christian beliefs. That is what I replied to.

It isn’t a question of whether Christian beliefs are perfectly rational.

With regards to the not playing with trans the question is whether they have a religious concern with that. That is clearly yes. It’s not your place to define another persons beliefs even if you think it’s irrational.

But that wasn't your specific claim. I agree it is entirely fine for them to have an issue with playing with a trans player.

But I was rebutting your specific claim which was about being trans being a mockery of God, which i am pointing out is not really supported by Christianity itself. If you are withdrawing from that claim to the lesser one about having religous issue with it, i would consider that accurate and agree with you.