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User ID: 685

Banned by: @cjet79

I think this would be more interesting to our Jewish friends. It’s a longer piece about a Jewish bookstore and the trade in older Jewish books. Longer read.


It is funny that everywhere and anywhere white men must lead. Even in the “diversity” party who is in charge a mentally declining white male. And the backup is Newsome or maybe Pritzker whose brother is atleast an army Coronel tranny.

The gop atleast has a Brahmin close.

  • -18

I think that’s far more extreme probability than what occurred. And well the motte that it might technically be a crime. My guess is even without his exaggerations they still make the loans at the same terms.

The Bailey of course is this is a lot like when OJ got 36 years for some assault and theft. Probably should have been a year but they gave him 36 to punish him for the murder he was innocent of.

I’m also not 100% sure this is even a crime. Valuations themselves are tricky. Only the penthouse sq footage seems like it’s a potential material miststatement.

If we went thru every companies financial statements looking for errors like this then every CEO would be in jail.

I believe we did agree the 27 million number was the judge freelancing and rather poorly as I edited.

I don’t disagree the Penthouse appears to be wrong and misrepresented.

But I think you are arguing his numbers could be right. Maybe. Does seem weird to say 3x but so maybe they had argument for that.

You are making me curious how these ever got released. Banks wouldn’t give out client info like this unless they were suing.

So in that case someone lost money? Not the same thing.

Comparing a Ponzi scheme to a loan that was paid back.

I’ve noticed that rental units from a professional complex always seem small compared to an identical unit rented by an owner in a condo building.

There are some reasons how sq footage can be counted different. You can measure every room and get a number (excludes the carpentry work) or just measure what it would be as raw space. Commercial has even more leeway on counting space (outside hallways to offices I believe can be counted differently).

Here’s the filing. https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_complaint.pdf

It’s page 110. But also on your (2) the judge specifically says “2300%” overvaluation. You are creating a motte and Bailey. I’ve repeatedly said I think Trumps figures look high to me. I’m not debating that. My point has consistently been the 25 is stupid.

Coming to a “hard” valuation on this property is nearly impossible. It has land use restrictions. It’s also the most prestigious property in arguably the most prestigious neighborhood in the USA. How much would a tech mega billionaire pay for it to have a family heirloom for their family? Could be anything. So I’m not sure you can do better than a local market expert because their are not comps for it.

It’s past my legal ability but for market value purposes a top broker in the market would seem to be a reasonable expert witness.

That being said (and I’ve edited my top post) I wouldn’t quote this judges reasoning. He’s made shit up before and been reversed.

Here’s a quote:

“He said, “You can’t just do this because the zoning allows it. I just can’t believe this is the case.”

Alas for Engoron, it was the case — so the higher court reversed him. “

So in the past he’s admitted a developer was doing something “legal” and ruled against him anyway.


The $25 million figure isn’t even used in the prosecutors brief. They use better arguments some of which may be correct (I think trump may have been overvaluing 50%).

I’ve numerous times explained my reasoning.

That being side I worked it out with ashlael - the prosecutor didn’t even use that 25 value. The judge hates real estate values and frequently gets overturned. That part was the judge freelancing

He did do that he presented expert testimony for higher valuations

Seems a fair analysis. That seems like a more thorough valuation. My origional comment was the prosecutor was doing lawfare but I assumed they wouldn’t do it stupidly.

It now appears as though the judge is particularly anti-developer and quite likely really really stupid on the material.

I’ve said a few times I believe Trump exaggerates and I am easily convinced his valuation assumptions could be aggressive; though the banks should have the people to work thru it and get the data they need.

Unfortunately for the Trump is a criminal crowd it seems as though the judge gave them bulletin board material making this case look stupider than it is.

Fwiw I don’t know if in the mid 2010’s the property had huge value as a private residence plus club. I do think there is a market for it now at a very high valuation.

Other homes are selling in the 200 million range so I could see some rich guy plopping down a billion for it now.

Tax values aren’t the same as market values. Tax values are just a made up value (though usually they are suppose to be proportional to market values when compared to similar properties).

The tax man then figures out how much money they need to raises. Divides that number by the total tax assessed values to get a millage rate. Then applies that to every building to get their tax for the year.

This is well known in real estate circles and common practice. The judge and the prosecutor are making category errors (I believe on purpose but some evidence shows they might just be dumb).

Popular real estate twitter anon (and I believe lefty) https://twitter.com/goodguyguaranty/status/1707232241925910944?s=46&t=aQ6ajj220jubjU7-o3SuWQ

Judge hates developers. Frequently makes stupid decisions and gets overturned. So this might not be trump but his own bias against developers.


Nobody is disagreeing it affects the value. It’s the absurdity of emphasizing 27 million.

I believe it has a more residential private area. It’s gigantic anyone buying it is wanting an entertaining space where they get to be the boss. And as boss you get to pick your friends to be the members. Sort of like having the biggest yacht (which people do spend 500 million plus for yachts) and this yacht is surrounded by the richest people in the world. An exclusive billionaires club.

That’s not Palm Beach especially the good area or waterfront of which there is very limited supply.

Yes I do believe the judge did this for Reddit talking points.

Looked it up technically has to be listed as an employee. The deed allows that.

Wealth inequality has increased vastly more than inflation and things like Palm Beach estates are limited in supply and the people who buy they have vastly more wealth.

It’s misinforming to a conclusion that becomes a lie because Joe midtwit doesn’t know difference between tax appraisal and a market appraisal. And being that they used it for a legal judgement by people who should know better and have a duty to know better I would say is grounds for disbarment.

These are lawyers and they do have professional standards and the things presented by the judge are just straight up lying.

No this isn’t about “really has a surprising amount of detail”. I mean this is a complex valuation.

But the judge directly “only” states the 25 million value. Then says “an overvaluation of atleast 2,300% compared to assessors”

This is being willfully misleading. This feels like all the midtwits who try to emphasis the 50 intelligence agents who said hunters laptop was Russian (which he’s now suing them for accessing it) and then reply they gave a footnote that they actually knew nothing.

Nobody is debating that he’s NOT an allowed to subdivide it. And that does affect value but nowhere close to that value.

This is a case of what the news media does of them using a real piece of information in a misleading way. Most Americans don’t know tax appraisals and market appraisals are completely different and bear limited connection.

And I’ll be honest I think his 450-650 value was probably high back then. I could see it being worth 300 back then and he pumped it 50%. But the judge is lying in the document and basically created a press lease “Trump overstated 2300%” and that is not true. Average guy doesn’t know difference between a market appraisal and tax appraisal. Her conclusion is therefore lying.

He’s literally living there. And yes it’s allowed to be used as a private residence.

It’s still worth atleast the most expensive home in palm beach which is a tenth of the size or 250 million. It’s allowed to be a residence.

Could even be worth more than sfh because would be impossible for a billionaire to assembly a lot like that now.

Actually this is in civil court not criminal which heavily indicates how weak of a case it is. Beside it being very rare for a civil case that isn’t origionating from a victim.

Find me one case with precedence here where a little exaggeration on this specific form with zero victims was pursued.

Ok I see what you meant

They cited a tax value. That is not the same thing as an assessed value for market value. It’s a made up number they use for calculating taxes. And using it is an active attempt to deceive.

On the Palm Beach property I’m knowledgeable to yes the result is corruption or ignorance or just trying to give the redditors a partisan talking point. There isn’t even plausible deniability here.

Even if Trump can’t subdivide it’s certainly worth more than sfh with 2 ocean front acres which are trading 200 million plus. The family buying that plot would buy Mar for 200 and just have 15 extra acres.

You might not be able to get the full value of 20 acres which is probably over a billion but it’s certainly worth more than the highest sfh in the neighborhood which gives a lower bound of probably 250 million.