site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 3, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

12
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

So I would support more oversight and protection against human rights violations, in this case right to life, that are perpetrated under the guise of science.

The FDA was only in charge of saying whether the drug itself is safe and effective (or safe enough technically I suppose) though. Whether the drug SHOULD be used is outside the FDA's purview. The FDA isn't committing the (proposed) humans rights violations itself.

You could outlaw most abortion and still have the FDA sign off on the drug as safe but it only to be legal to use for cases where the legislature thinks it needs to happen (incest/rape etc.).

The science says this drug ends pregnancies X% of the time with A B and C side effects Z% of the time when taken in Y dosages under Z circumstances. Whether ending a pregnancy should happen is not something the FDA has any say in. So that isn't a human right violation perpetrated under the guise of science.

The FDA says you CAN use this to terminate a pregnancy. But they can't tell you if terminating the pregnancy is legal or moral. Assuming abortion is a human rights violation and is allowed then that would be the fault of the state and federal legislatures for not outlawing it rather than the FDA, surely? Or arguably the fact that enough people don't agree that it is a human rights violation so as to elect politicians who would carry out that agenda.

Otherwise the ATF is on the hook for any human rights violations carried out by firearms they have deemed legal under the relevant statutes as well. Which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Otherwise the ATF is on the hook for any human rights violations carried out by firearms they have deemed legal under the relevant statutes as well. Which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Don't give them ideas...

That does raise a question, though, is it really necessary to strike at mifeprestone specifically, then? Roe already is striking at the sort of higher echelons of law on this issue. I guess the 2022 midterms did show that there still isn't quite enough pressure all around to just formally illegalize abortion, but still.

Its always better to have multiple angles of attack practically i would say. Especially if the public doesn't seem to be entirely onboard. Banning abortion isn't popular but if you feel its murdering millions of babies then morally you probably should not let that stop you. Same with the getting rid of gas cars or whatever to prevent the (putative) end of the human race.