This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I’d like to solicit themotte’s thoughts on the ethics of piracy. Specificlly movies, software, and music.
Sharing copyrighted data has been a part of the internet landscape for as long as there has been networked computers. I know it traces back to the bbs days and likely even earlier than that.
Back in the early aughts I was involved in a forum where we would scan for unsecured FTP servers and then fill them with the latest movie music and software releases straight from the groups who actually created and distributed the files. The beauty of this is that you were transferring between commercial networks so the speeds were ludicrous.
This was not long after Napster popularized file sharing and typical online user was very much of the opinion that copying data and sharing it was not equivalent to stealing. Maybe it was the circles I traveled in and my age at the time, but nearly everyone was ethically fine with downloading media. The only reason one wouldn’t do it was that there you needed some minimal level of technical know how to find more than just music on p2p networks. The only folks opposed to it were media corporations, some artists, and a small amount of corporate shills.
Once iTunes, steam, Netflix’s, Spotify, and other commercial options became available, most people stopped file sharing and simply bought media. It was a common to hear the refrain that piracy was a result of lack of access to media online. If there was ease of access and a fair price, most people would be happy to purchase software. This sentiment is still common but I sense it’s become less prominent over the last few years. The streaming environment has become quite fracutured and has impaired both the ease of access and price point for legally consuming media online.
The point of this post is to suggest that people’s opinion on the ethics of media piracy is diametrically opposed to where it was for most of the internets history. The median online opinion that I see is that piracy = theft. Many of these people are young and have been thought from an early age that piracy is not ethical. I suspect that many have also changed their opinion as they age and perhaps are not working at software/medi companies where piracy not affects them directly.
From a personal perspective, I stopped pirating media when iTunes and steam hit the market because it was in fact easier to obtain things legally and I was happy to pay.
That changed about 4 years ago when I realized that I could not in good conscience pay money to Hollywood and leftist game developers. I am happy to pirate their software and steal their movies because the alternative is so distasteful to me. I will occasionally really enjoy something and find the creators to be acceptable enough to support. In those cases I will purchase something after the fact to support people that I agree with. I encourage everyone to do the same. Enforcement of file sharing these days is non-existent. You can pretty much use the the pirate bay without worry and ignore the occasional email from you isp asking you to stop. Though there are many other alternatives out there that don’t take long to find.
I am not necessarily against copyright in its entirety. I am against DMCA, Sonny Bono act, etc. etc. and I am excited for the blighted Mouse to start slipping from under copyright at the end of this year (250 days left as of today!). I think a base of ~7 years, with possible exponentially costed extensions, would be a good enough solution.
I don't pirate games - I probably would if I were more of a retro player, but these days I have over 800 titles on steam, and that would probably last me multiple lifetimes on its own. I don't pirate books - I have a library within walking distance, and I read less than I'd like to so I have a substantial reading backlog as well. I sometimes pirate movies, because I decide on what I want to see first, and only then check if it's on netflix, and pirate otherwise. I think this one is a generational divide, with most people younger than me launching $STREAMING_SERVICE first and then browsing and deciding. Which brings me to my main point: presentism.
A significant part of our shared culture, mostly form the XXth century, is under assault by a baptist and bootlegger coalition. The bootleggers are the megacorp copyright holders and streaming owners: Disney, Netflix, etc. They want you to not care about the things that are old, because the might have unprofitable or tangled licences for it. They want you to view Current Thing only, because that's how they make most of their profits. Don't ask questions, get attached to the brand not the specific story, consume product.
The baptists are the culture warriors. Sensitivity readers who strangle books in the crib. People who lobby for some Dr Seuss books removed from circulation, for Roald Dahl books to get bowdlerized. People who get into translating Japanese media to try to oust the current western anime audience from it. Simpsons episode getting removed because Michael Jackson had a minor voice role. And so on and so forth. The baptist wants you to watch and read only the Current Thing because only the Current Thing has the correct amount of representation, of course only until it's supplanted by the next Current Thing.
(And sometimes people get worse due to sheer incompetence, like old TV series getting cropped and zoomed in to fit widescreen, because someone along the chain of command thinks that zoomers will die of confusion if they encounter letterboxing).
With that in mind, even if pirates have ulterior motives, they offer a valuable service to the culture: media preservation in the face of encroaching censorship. If you don't want your children to live in eternal Year Zero of culture war full of extruded movielike product that makes current MCU look like Bergman, you should probably buy persistent physical media and/or pirate too.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link