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Culture War Roundup for the week of May 15, 2023

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Does he name any of these studies? Wheat outcompeting corn is unintuitive right off the bat

I don't see the study; as is unfortunately common in popular works, the book does not have standard endnotes or footnotes. But, the comparison is not between wheat and corn, but between teosinte and wild wheat, and teosinte ears were apparently very small, as he discusses. Note also that even today, wheat has much more protein, and more of most other nutrients, than does corn.

but I disagree with your definition of "taken seriously". Like I said Channers schizzoing out about COVID weren't taken seriously, even though they were right, and were making arguments that should have been addressed.

Well, it sounds to me that we are agreeing about the dangers of dismissing arguments out of hand.

But, the comparison is not between wheat and corn, but between teosinte and wild wheat, and teosinte ears were apparently very small, as he discusses. Note also that even today, wheat has much more protein, and more of most other nutrients, than does corn.

roystgnr points out that's not really an apropriate comparison either.

I remember there was some autistic alt-righter that took the whole thing apart, I think I can find the link if you want. Trying to criticize a book of this size going purely off years-old memories probably isn't going to work out.

Well, it sounds to me that we are agreeing about the dangers of dismissing arguments out of hand.

Let's put it this way: I'm in favor of putting beloved-by-the-establishment pop-sci authors of Theories Of Everything on the same level as 4channers, and pub philosophers, whichever way you want to equalize them. If you're game for that, than we're in agreement.

I'm in favor of putting beloved-by-the-establishment pop-sci authors of Theories Of Everything on the same level as 4channers, and pub philosophers,

Well, if the 4channer and pub philosopher assembles as much evidence as Diamond did, sure. But I don’t see the point in summarily dismissing an argument simply because it is a theory of everything, nor because it is beloved by the establishment. Not to mention that that leaves no bottom rung for theories of everything written by journalists.

Well, if the 4channer and pub philosopher assembles as much evidence as Diamond did, sure.

Yeah, but that's not how it works. Look, I found the video taking Diamond apart. Full of evidence, and it's better presented than Diamond's, but no one is going to put them on equal footing. This is a systemic failure in our society, we constantly promote half-baked nonsense, and bury it's criticism.

But I don’t see the point in summarily dismissing an argument simply because it is a theory of everything, nor because it is beloved by the establishment.

I do. What are the chances of someone discovering a proper Theory of Everything? In history / social sciences they inevitably turn out to be self-congratulatory stories we tell ourselves, the evidence turns out to be misrepresented in various ways, and counter-evidence turns out to be left out (deliberately or otherwise). These sorts of huge theories require huge amounts of effort to refute them (the video I linked is a mere 2 hours and 46 minutes for example), so at the end of the day it seems the appropriate reaction is "cool story, bro" not putting the person on an interview circuit.

Not to mention that that leaves no bottom rung for theories of everything written by journalists.

I don't see why we have to pull up journalists from their rung.

Huh, just learned that zebras are actually tamable. I have been spreading that bad meme for a while now.

What are the chances of someone discovering a proper Theory of Everything?

But that should not be the criterion. The criterion should be whether the argument and evidence brings us closer to the truth.

They're the same thing, and that's might point. Evidence for specific claims like "one crop provided more calories per acre than another" bring us closer to the truth. The chances of assembling many such specific claims, and evidence for them, into a sweeping Theory Of Everything has minuscule chances of bringing us closer to the truth.

Well, I don't see how the individual components of an argument can bring us closer to the truth, but the overall argument doesn't.

It's pretty simple, the individual components are verifiable in multiple ways, the bigger argument is not verifiable in any way, unless you happen to have a Multiverse Explorer that allows us to play around with the individual parameters and confirm that the implications drawn from the components to the grand theory are correct.

Also as a he complexity of your argument grows, the chances of making a mistake increases, and I don't think the relationship is linear. Add to that various psychological biases, and like I said the chances of you taking anyone closer to the truth are minuscule.

Yes, but that is my point. A large, complex argument might get the big picture wrong, yet have components that are valuable. We are agreeing with each other.

Add to that various psychological biases, and like I said the chances of you taking anyone closer to the truth are minuscule.

Except that the current orthodoxy also certainly suffers from biases and other weaknesses. As the old joke goes, "I don’t have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you."

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