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What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.

Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.

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Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

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PaperclipPerfector 11mo ago (text post) 5873 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for May 21, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

jofjofinf 11mo ago

Does anyone else lack schadenfreude?

Schadenfreude - pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune

I guess the first time noticing this about myself is me being unable to get through "fail compilation" videos on YouTube leading me to find win compilations. Seeing other people get hurt or embarrassed rarely brings me joy.

Even when I think they "deserve" it.

Lets say a thief steals some merchandise from a store and on the way out they knock an innocent bystander over and they sprain their ankle. Imagine now 2 weeks later that thief gets caught by police while committing another theft because while they were attempting the robbery they sprained their ankle allowing the police to scoop them up. A nice little just so story about karmic revenge or whatever.

I can imagine all the comments underneath that short news story, the obvious jokes and and laughing emojis driven by the thief's comeuppance. While I am glad the thief lost in the end, it does not put a smile on my face or entice me to write a comment expressing my glee at someone's downfall.

Context

f3zinker Its A/B testing all the way down jofjofinf 11mo ago · Edited 11mo ago

Nope, can't experience it either. I get entertained to some extent when people trip over their own misdoings/incompetence but it doesn't bring me gloating joy, it's more of.. ahh the world works in funny ways, at least it's not me.

I have a tremendously hard time with "copes" as well. Which gets branded as "ungrateful" by those who are not of the same wavelength but I'd just say I'm hyper-competitive and If I'm not winning, I'm losing. I can't just rationalize away not winning, at anything, even if I know rationally I am far outclassed have no chance in hell and the other person deserves to win, it still gets to me.

The reason I said all that is I think some of the satisfaction of personal victory can be outsourced to others losing.

Context

Walterodim Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t f3zinker 11mo ago

I have a tremendously hard time with "copes" as well. Which gets branded as "ungrateful" by those who are not of the same wavelength but I'd just say I'm hyper-competitive and If I'm not winning, I'm losing. I can't just rationalize away not winning, at anything, even if I know rationally I am far outclassed have no chance in hell and the other person deserves to win, it still gets to me.

I was this way with sports and games, but competitive running cured me of it. There's something about the pure linearity of just being plain out slower than the other guy that feels appropriately karmically just, even though I'd rather win.

Context

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.

Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.

New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!

Rules

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