site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 22, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Well OK, but what if pontificating on the issue du jour helps you sell [product]?

Seems like a high variance strategy, to be honest.

Because it turns out that it isn't easy to predict in advance which side might take offense to a particular stance and how the public opinion on certain issues might shift over the course of a matter of years. It would seemingly take less effort to stay in the middle of the road than to correctly determine which extreme will produce more revenue for you.

And it certainly seems more sensible to build a reputation of "they produce quality [product] and provide good service" than "they have an agreeable stance on [issue] so I don't mind poorer quality or service." Since the former can be kept consistent, the latter maybe not.

But more to the point, I don't see why executives, acting in their capacity as executives, should be expected comment on purely political matters if their company or the broader industry isn't directly implicated or effected by said matters. This seems like a situation where there is ONLY downside to be had.

And I'm focusing my critique here on so-called 'publicly-traded' companies since as the name implies their interests are not bound up in a single person or small group of people who suffer directly for their decision making. There's a near 100% chance that their shareholders come from across the political spectrum and have a huge panoply of personal views that it would be impossible to account for when setting out the company's actual stance on a given issue.

And, likewise, they owe all those shareholders a duty to try to maximize shareholder value, and if they lose revenue through taking a stance on a political issue that they didn't have to comment on at all that seems like a dereliction of that duty.

So it really beggars belief that execs who are nominally accountable to shareholders would:

A) Active risk offending said shareholders' personal beliefs, to the extent those beliefs are irrelevant to the company's business anyway (i.e. an oil company will always offend an environmentalist).

B) Actively risk their company's existing revenue streams for SMALL potential gains in marketshare or popularity. There's just no way that picking a side in a culture war battle is a winning strategy when you're already in a near-dominant position.

I have yet to hear an actual consistent explanation for why giant companies need to set out a legible political stance at all, other than "if we don't then activists might get mad at us."