This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Wow, those Jews and their International Zionist Conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids, who could be up to them?
I'm not Jewish and I think eugenics is bonkers and evil. The Nazis just took it to the logical extreme, but before the war there were Eugenics Societies popping up everywhere happily planning the betterment of the human race (by letting the superior stock breed and discouraging the undesirables).
If you think the 'forty years of unscrupulous Jewish conspiracy to stop the goyim from practicing eugenics to improve themselves' is bad, be glad Francis Galton never got his way to make eugenics a common social practice. In order to marry and have kids, you (a gentleman) would need to be working towards your Certificate of Fitness since you were a child, being assessed and scored by your teachers and others all the way up to and through university, until finally you got a high enough score to be a potential spouse.
Meanwhile the young ladies would be advised by their families, and the prospect of an uneugenic marriage would be regarded with the same scorn and detestation as incest. Forget falling in love, that's romantic nonsense the young are confused by, sensible mothers and the neighbourhood nosey parkers would make sure Mabel marries Philip and not Terrance.
I am not one bit surprised Jewish people would think eugenics a discredited notion and work against it.
But here was me thinking Jewish eugenics was "make sure before marriage that you're not carrying the genes for the various bad syndromes that Jewish populations are at high risk of due to centuries of in-breeding in a small genetic pool", but no! It is all a secret plot to reap the benefits of the Super Master Smart Race for themselves and keep it from us Gentiles!
The plot must be working, I feel I have lost 10 IQ points reading the post above.
A common fallacy I've seen is to compare one historical ideology/cultural practice with modern life, and use that comparison as a point against the historical version.
But a much more fair comparison would be the one Galton made, which compares his proposed eugenic society to real life 1860-1870 England:
"The best form of civilization in respect to the improvement of the race, would be one in which society was not costly; where incomes were chiefly derived from professional sources, and not much through inheritance; where every lad had a chance of showing his abilities, and, if highly gifted, was enabled to achieve a first-class education and entrance into professional life, by the liberal help of the exhibitions and scholarships which he had gained in his early youth; where marriage was held in as high honor as in ancient Jewish times;" - Galton 1869
Note the alternative Galton is comparing to is marriages based on inherited title and income. Do you believe that real world alternative in 1869 was better than Galton's proposal?
No. The Nazis did their own thing that was not particularly related to actual eugenic proposals. Since you invoke Galton, here's the rest of the quote above:
"where the pride of race was encouraged (of course I do not refer to the nonsensical sentiment of the present day, that goes under that name); where the weak could find a welcome and a refuge in celibate monasteries or sisterhoods, and lastly, where the better sort of emigrants and refugees from other lands were invited and welcomed, and their descendants naturalized." - Galton, 1869
Galton was generally a friend to Anglo-Jewry and viewed them favorably, as anyone who actually read him would realize: https://galton.org/essays/1900-1911/galton-1910-jewish-chronicle-eugenics.pdf
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link