This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This comment says nothing. All this money is negligible compared to the size of the American economy. It “sounds big”, that’s all. And I think it’s important, now and again, for any great power to show the world who’s boss. Looking at historical imperial lifespans it’s likely the US still has at least fifty years on top.
The industrial capacity is the biggest bottleneck. It doesn't matter how much money the US spends, there won't be enough artillery shells. The US is emptying it stock of air defence on the border to Iran, which clearly strengthens Iran's ability to hit back with missiles. Ukraine had thousands of SAM before the war which now are largely expended. Replacing s300 missiles with 5 million dollar Patriot missiles isn't only expensive, it requires those missiles to be manufactured. Add on the 250 s300 launchers and there is both economic and supply chain woes. Meanwhile, China outpaces the US in SAM production. The resources to train troops is strained. This war is causing a major NATO-supply chain shock. After three decades of failed wars, the US can't simultaneously keep the war in Ukraine going, dominate the middle east and keep China back. Latin American countries and the middle east have clearly moved away from the American orbit, with the US tied down in Taiwan and Ukraine.
As for cost, the cost has been enormous. It isn't just the tens of billions spent on weapons so far, it is going to be tens of billions per year for decades. Add 5% interest on these loans and the cost is significant. The inflation, caused by this war combined with the raised interest rates to combat it, far surpasses the direct cost of the weapons.
While empires don't die quickly, the US is clearly in a latter phase as it is stuck continuously fighting wars on the periphery while not being able to expand. Empires tend to decline when problems that need to be dealt with outstrips the ability to handle them. The Russia situation piled more problems on the US.
US inflation was high before the war and it has fallen during the war: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=167K2
More options
Context Copy link
This is nothing for the US.
The inflation was caused by money printing during COVID. The war has contributed very little to inflation, at least in the US.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link