This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
And now, to add another data point to the ongoing motte argument about "are people actually sick of woke?"
Social Conservatism in U.S. Highest in About a Decade
So reads the title of this Gallup report, which I have to admit warmed my cold dead once-a-libertarian heart. People identifying as "very conservative" or "conservative" made up 38% of respondents, while those identifying as "liberal" or "very liberal" made up 29%. This is now the second year in a row more people have identified as conservative than the previous, which is enough to constitute a "trend" according to my old stats professor. Cue celebratory balloons.
Most, but not all, of the increase is due to a much smaller percentage of Republicans self-identifying as moderates (32% in 2021 to 18% in 2023) but Independents are trending more conservative as well (up to 29% identifying as conservative from 24% in 2021).
It also appears that the long-repeated and sometimes despaired-of switch to conservatism among millennials is finally happening.
The 30-49 age bracket had a 13 point move towards conservatism, compared to the only 11 point shift in the 50-64 year olds. But even the Zoomers are getting more conservative, as the 18-29 year olds saw a 6 point shift.
Economic conservatism also ticked up but it's the social conservatism that's really interesting.
This won't reverse institutional capture, it won't stop Biden from hanging a pride flag on the white house (which could not look more like the flag of a conquering nation if it tried) but it's a shift. It could simply be a natural reaction to Democratic supremacy in the government, but the historical numbers don't track to party changes. I personally think it's probably just the right becoming more right, and no longer identifying as independent, but it's interesting none the less.
There was an interesting Slow Boring newsletter last week about how men 18-24 would answer questions like "do men have a right to know where their girlfriend is at all times" or "will it create relationship problems if a woman earns more" in a more feminist way then previous generations of men, but self-ID as feminists less. The theory was that young men weren't comparing themselves to the population as a whole they were comparing themselves to similarly aged women and saying 'well if that's feminism I'm not that'.
Basically if the overton window is shifting left we might see an increase in conservative self-ID without major shifts on the actual issues. Have opinions on abortion or gay marriage or women's place in the workplace changed? This article doesn't list individual issues but I doubt it. I would expect their to be a lot of polarization on trans issues people weren't previously paying attention to, and if social conservatism gets redefined as 'no trans women in women's sports, but yes gay marriage' then yeah I would expect a rise in social conservatism.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link