site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

This might be the one occasion where I say: I hate people like you on sight bro. It took me over a year to consistently hit V4s. Your grip strength must be insane to gut out a V4 with zero technique, or you're very naturally graceful. The only other kid I ever met that good from the start was a guy who was inches from being a pro soccer player, just a tremendous athlete.

I don't remember if it was the first day or the fourth, but I've never been more than a handful of times. I am nowhere near that pro soccer player's level of athleticism. I was just an ordinary 25-year-old dude that worked out a couple times a week. Plenty of guys could run faster, jump higher, and lift more than I could. At the time I could run a mile in a little under seven minutes, bench 195, squat 275, and deadlift 315. Which I considered decent, but nothing to write home about. I will also say that I was about at my limit on these and succeeded only about half the time. I suppose I could go back now, three years older and ten pounds heavier, and see if I've still got it. I could take pictures to show you, if you wanted.

As far as grip strength: yeah, I'll say I won the genetic lottery there. I went to summer camps when I was a preteen where they held dead-hang contests; I always won by a large margin. Even now, with no specific training, I can dead hang from a standard pull-up bar for two minutes. Grace? I'm average, although more flexible than average. Pretty sure that whatever talent I have at climbing comes from just having grip strong like bull. Hands are medium or large, for what it's worth.

That being said, though, swings and roundabouts; I'd trade half my grip strength for a quarter of your social gracefulness, assuming you're not also autistic...when God made me, He must've used a grab bag of random parts off the factory floor or something. I have strong grip, stretchy skin, ADHD, and autism.

You should really give climbing a serious go if your top skills are grip and flexibility, my dude.

We can only trade degrees of 'tism. But I'm jealous of your climbing.

Yeah. Also, IMHO...if those ForeverAlone guys are short - 5'5" or less - they could be climbing V10 consistently, be the best climber in their local gym by a large margin. Unless they're making a million a year or better and have top one-percent charisma? They've got a snowball's chance in Hell of being with a girl who is wealthy and functional enough to afford a climbing gym. Short men, IMHO, are essentially selected by lot to be remarkable human beings, to be nurses, caretakers, and social workers for their partners, or to be celibate for life. The latter seems to be a little bit frowned upon these days...although there's an awful lot of short medical residents who are "focused on their careers". Probably better than living What's Eating Gilbert Grape or winding up with someone who's a danger to herself or others.