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Your morality is confusing to me because if everyone espoused the same ideology, your position becomes that much more tenuous on this planet. And I don't mean moral position, I mean literal position - your life.
By your standard, there's nothing inherently immoral about someone invading your nation and killing all of its citizens including you. If morality is just a conflict of might to impose on others, then physical might is very much a part of that, and foreigners have no reason to care at all, as opposed to some different morality in which some actions are immoral regardless of who or what the target is.
What you've done is open up your very existence as acceptable for targeting, and you cannot even complain if someone tries it. Your brother is not immoral for trying to kill you if he doesn't think you deserve to live - by his morality, that's perfectly fine. The closest thing I imagine to a world in which this is believed is Hobbes' State of Nature, but your position doesn't even benefit from that resulting ceasefire and eventual peace because you don't allow anyone to actually lower their guard around others.
This is a meta-position on the nature of morality that makes the world actively worse off if everyone actually believed it, and one I suspect is actively informed by your object-level considerations.
I do not believe morality's function is to maximize lifespans.
Yes, this is correct. That's why tribes form raiding parties and states form armies.
I don't understand what you're saying here. People don't need to think they're performing evil from their perspective for me to oppose them. My brother being immoral or not by his own reckoning is wholly unimportant to me, especially in the context of an attempted murder. Why would my behavior at all be contingent on someone else's self-evaluation?
It makes the world worse in your values system, which is fine and dandy. My morality is not contingent on your approval.
I didn't say it did. But I suspect you are not indifferent about whether you live the next 5 years or 50, and adopting your position does not improve your life expectancy.
Yes, but a world in which those armies and raiders don't exist because people agree that war and raiding are immoral is one in which those resources can be utilized elsewhere. At the very least, your time would not be spent on needing to fight.
I didn't say your behavior would be affected - you'd still defend yourself no matter what he thought. But the fact that you have to guard against this is a drain on your time and attention at the very least. If you abandon the idea that someone is not evil for wanting to kill you, you're inviting everyone to engage in calculus to see if it's worth their time to kill you, and someone may decide to take their chances where they otherwise would not if that behavior was deemed immoral society-wide.
I've never said your morality needs my approval, but if you're not willing to entertain the idea that your morality might be flawed, then what are you even doing in a space in which nearly anything is up for debate? To proselytize?
It would be nice to live longer, in most circumstances, but that's nevertheless not the purpose of morality.
But that's not the world. Nature is violent; maybe one day some hallowed technocrat will genetically engineer the capacity for violence out of his new slave race, but we've got to deal with the current human condition.
That calculus still exists no matter what I do. If someone wishes me dead, it is not my ability to call them evil that will stay their hand; it's my ability to defend myself, and/or the state's ability to convince them they will face legal punishment.
We're having a conversation. That's not proselytization; there's not a chance you'll adopt my values and I'm not trying to persuade you to. If your goal here is to convince me my morality is flawed, I'm sorry to say you are wasting your time. My morality is perfect.
The one in which people actively reject your way of thinking? Because there are many people who have banded together and decided w/o using force, instead with reasoning and debate, that some things are immoral.
Calling them evil is a strategy. It is an appeal to them that they risk violating a direr imperative. Words can and have ended fights before they start.
If you think you hold the perfect morality and you think people cannot be convinced of another's morality except by physical might, then what's the point of even being on this site? You responded to others that you hold it as moral for people closer to you via your circles to exploit those farther away. Why would you even bother saying this if you think people cannot change their morals via words?
Regardless, you are correct when you say that you will not concede any point about morality. So this is where I drop this conversation.
No one rejects it. They reject bluntness, and couch it in layers of preening obfuscation. The rule of law is innately rule by violence. Society cheers when the "right people" get hurt for the "right reasons". They make calls for direct action to stop hate. Etc., etc.
People don't kill because it's really hard to hide a corpse and life in prison sucks. It's not being evil that dissuades people, it's being punished.
This is a discussion forum. I am having discussions. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to reckon with, but it's really, truly not complicated. It is a recreational social activity.
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