site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

40
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Its a big deal if Ukraine wins its shores up the "Liberal international order" another 30 years, and then we live to see the slow role of totalitarianism every western country is headed towards come to fruition. You can see it in Ukraine: Our elites wish they ban opposition parties, opposition press, and then round up their ethnic and political enemies to use as canon fooder just like Zelensky is doing...

If Russia had won quickly and decisively it would have probably broken the western elite, and forced Germany and Co. to pivot towards Russia to secure their energy and econonmic interests... And then the possibility of the global total state would have been impossible.

As it is, if Ukraine wins this war or Russia collapses I shudder at what globohomo might become...

I'm not outraged at Ukraine or the middle-east because of any especial emotional attachment to the people there... I'm outraged because of what it lets us know about what the western and more specifically north American elite will do to us here.

Same way they've been trying to deploy all the tools of the war on terror against dissidents at home, you can bet they'll use all the Zelensky techniques and cite "what those brave Ukrainians did" as a precedent when they wage war on their own population.

Ukraine losing won't stop the west's slide into degeneracy, and Russia winning won't save the west from globohomo, either. Salvation will not come through proxy battles misunderstood as magical omens indicating domestic currents. Even if Russia wins, the fact it's struggling so much makes it clear it's not a real threat, outside a nuclear salvo.

If you want to stop progressives, you gotta stop them at home, not across the sea. If anything, I'm glad even a little bit of their activist attention is harmlessly redirected to the ass end of nowhere.