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PaperclipPerfector  2yr ago (text post)   33226 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 10, 2023

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Of the four reasons he gives for Ireland's right to independence consent of the governed (at least in the sense that the Irish kings only consented to the English claim under duress) is one.

But, does O'Mahoney make a claim that people in Ireland identify as a separate nationality, and have an intrinsic right to a separate state on that basis alone, or does he merely that they did not consent to being ruled by the English? Those are very different claims. See, eg, the Declaration of Independence, which rests on an argument re the latter (specifically, that people have the right to withdraw their consent when government becomes destructive of the rights that govt is created to protect). An argument based on nationalism is that group X, because it is a "nation," has a right to self-determination, regardless of whether the imperial power ruling over them is just, unjust, originally based on consent, or whatever. But that is not the claim made in the Declaration of Independence.

Also, how much was the uprising in Ireland tied to the ongoing religious conflict in England and environs? it is one thing to say, "we are being oppressed by outsiders, so we should be independent of them." It is a different thing to say, "all nations (ie. nationalities) have the right to self-determination. The Irish are a nation; therefore we have the right to self-determination.

we can find many precursors to nationalism

It seems to me that "precursors" is doing a lot of work there. All historically important ideas have precursors, after all.

But, does O'Mahoney make a claim that people in Ireland identify as a separate nationality

I'm not sure but the distinction between 'Gael' and 'Englishman' was very common and goes back at least as far as the 12th century and the 'Gael' and 'Gall' (foreigner i.e Vikings) the 9th.

and have an intrinsic right to a separate state on that basis alone, or does he merely that they did not consent to being ruled by the English?

If they don't consent to being ruled by the English than what's the alternative? A concept of self-rule is implicit in the complaint.

Also, how much was the uprising in Ireland tied to the ongoing religious conflict in England and environs?

It was intensified by the religious split but it long predated it. The Norman conquerers basically became Gaelicised and adopted the local language, loyalties and customs and England's defacto holdings shrank. Things naturally tended towards Ireland being its own political world until the English reasserted their claim in the 16th century.

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