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Culture War Roundup for the week of October 2, 2023

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The Church has changed traditions over time in order to maintain itself, increase its robustness, promote antifragility, etc.

But that doesn't imply anything and everything should be subject to change as long as it promotes it's robustness, or you'll reach "make killing legal to solve murder" territory.

Therefore, I don't know how democratic religious have fared compared to more top-down structures

Well, just as a quick sanity check, which sects of Christianity are flying the rainbow flag right now?

My view is that this debate is the long arc of history: how much progress, and how fast?

My view is that this leaves out the important question of "progress towards what?". Not all changes are good just because they're changes, and while making some changes in order to increase your chances for survival might be fine, a fundamental enough change is indistinguishable from death. Should Christianity endorse Satan worship, if it increased it's chances for survival? Should progressives endorse white supremacy?

Everything is on the table for change, but its not equally wise or good to change any aspect. The US nearly wrecked itself to get rid of slavery. Legal slavery in perpetuity probably wasn't a stable solution, and the US paid dearly to change a fundamental aspect of its operation, deleting the 3/5 compromise and adding new lines to its "code". The Catholic Church moved away from Latin mass because that was probably a sub-optimal configuration. If, in the year 2300, society has determined that being anti gay is as bad as being pro slavery, I'd bet that the Catholic church will bless gay unions, or something similar (its unlikely, but possible). Solutions like "making killing legal to solve murder" are generally unstable solutions to law and order institutions.

Well, just as a quick sanity check, which sects of Christianity are flying the rainbow flag right now?

Oh, I have no idea. I wasn't raised with a religion, and haven't really chosen one.

"progress towards what?"

Kurt Vonnegut would sarcastically argue its to make more plastic. Ellul would argue 'technique' is progressing to separate us from nature for its own ends. Dawkins would argue for the successful propagation of replicators. Steven Pinker would argue its a move towards less violence and loger, healthier lifespans. I'm closest to the latter arguments.

Not all changes are good just because they're changes

Agreed! Chesterton is a very wise part of the conversation. The pride-flying sects are either blowing themselves up, or evolving to a more stable structure. I think the latter, but who knows. The ACLU is blowing itself up imo, but FIRE is filling the void. The reactionary and unwise BLM movement is blowing up racial progress imo, but they seem to be cashing out. There may or may not be some wise findings in the debris (for example, I'm in favor of skepticism to police power, training standards, and attitudes, and I hope these change at the institutional level).

Should Christianity endorse Satan worship, if it increased it's chances for survival? Should progressives endorse white supremacy?

This sounds like should X become not X to survive. Not sure it fits. But say in the rubble of WW3 might progressives become totalitarian to put society back together. Yeah, but they won't claim to be progressives anymore. Have to run, getting increasingly less thoughtful.

Everything is on the table for change

I disagree, and I think you do too, since later you say:

This sounds like should X become not X to survive. Not sure it fits.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm driving at. Whether or not it fits is another question, but I think this does show "Everything is on the table for change, the long arc of history, how much progress, and how fast" does not cover everything.

Yeah, but they won't claim to be progressives anymore.

But what if they do though? What if in some years, without any WW3 mediated collapse of society, someone says "You know what would be really progressive? A literal racial caste system with white people on top!"? What exactly could be said to dismiss their idea?