naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I find the position that I am reflexively most inclined to subscribe to here to be woefully underrepresented in the discourse: neither side is in the wrong. If a village of hunter-gatherers hunts some elephants, and then the remnant elephant herd tramples the village, goring women and children in the process, would you say that either the hunters or the elephants are wrong and evil? Both sides are just doing what they must to survive (and retain the hope to thrive). If anyone is to blame at all, it's whoever put them in this position where they have no other choice to begin with - but even that responsibility seems to largely lie with diffuse, impersonal and/or simply long-gone forces.
I find the position that I am reflexively most inclined to subscribe to here to be woefully underrepresented in the discourse: neither side is in the wrong.
My view is close to but not quite this. More that the moral question just doesn't even matter. What difference does it make? Outside of certain gardens of enlightened thought, this is just how these things go and the moral question interacts with the reality as a mere shadow force.
The Palestinians/Arabs fought multiple times and they lost. Vae victis. Israel is living in a region full of enemies it apparently cannot eliminate or make peace with, shit will happen.
Part of that may be my ex-muslim contrarianism (I find it obscene how much people tied to Arabs* via Islam care about this relative to other conflicts, as with the daughters of Jerusalem, people really should weep for themselves and what's coming) but it is what it is.
* It's an open question how much Arabs feel tied to us. Many Arabs states clearly don't care anymore about Palestine and they certainly don't care about Muslims in China. I find it hard to believe they'll treat us any better in any comparable situation. I doubt they see us as equals. And I'm supposed to weep that they utterly failed Palestine because religious fellow-feeling?
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Notes -
I find the position that I am reflexively most inclined to subscribe to here to be woefully underrepresented in the discourse: neither side is in the wrong. If a village of hunter-gatherers hunts some elephants, and then the remnant elephant herd tramples the village, goring women and children in the process, would you say that either the hunters or the elephants are wrong and evil? Both sides are just doing what they must to survive (and retain the hope to thrive). If anyone is to blame at all, it's whoever put them in this position where they have no other choice to begin with - but even that responsibility seems to largely lie with diffuse, impersonal and/or simply long-gone forces.
My view is close to but not quite this. More that the moral question just doesn't even matter. What difference does it make? Outside of certain gardens of enlightened thought, this is just how these things go and the moral question interacts with the reality as a mere shadow force.
The Palestinians/Arabs fought multiple times and they lost. Vae victis. Israel is living in a region full of enemies it apparently cannot eliminate or make peace with, shit will happen.
Part of that may be my ex-muslim contrarianism (I find it obscene how much people tied to Arabs* via Islam care about this relative to other conflicts, as with the daughters of Jerusalem, people really should weep for themselves and what's coming) but it is what it is.
* It's an open question how much Arabs feel tied to us. Many Arabs states clearly don't care anymore about Palestine and they certainly don't care about Muslims in China. I find it hard to believe they'll treat us any better in any comparable situation. I doubt they see us as equals. And I'm supposed to weep that they utterly failed Palestine because religious fellow-feeling?
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