naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I've seen a few people wonder why some people support Palestine in this conflict. While videos like this one (which predates the current conflict) are undoubtedly propaganda, they do offer a window into the worldview of a person who supports Palestine.
Wikipedia claims that 40% of male Palestinians have spent some time in an Israeli prison. I hear about Israel demolishing 55,000 Palestinian structures as of 2022. I remember that Gaza had been blockaded by Egypt and Israel since 2005, despite Israel supposedly backing out of Gaza.
Even if every example of Israelis killing Palestinian civilians was collateral damage or accident, even if we assume that the cameras showing Israeli brutality always start rolling at the perfect moment to make it look like unnecessary brutality on their part, it's obvious to me that Palestine won't be able to grow under its current conditions of occupation. If the United States supports Israel, then Israel will prevail and Palestine will lose little by little every year. It will be a slow motion catastrophe, and there is nothing Palestine can do about it.
Is national, regional and global stability worth anything to the Palestinian people under such conditions? No wonder people are posting music videos in this thread of Palestinians with pipe dreams of Russia becoming a global super power again, and supporting Palestine to spite the United States. They're fucked, and I think there's something noble in fighting until you're wiped from the Earth by your enemy. Even if history remembers you as a monster, they will remember you.
I'm honestly a little conflicted about who I should support.
I don't understand how you can watch some of the videos that came out the last couple days and still feel this way. Raping someone to death and using their body as a trophy and then proudly releasing the video... makes it kind of an easy choice.
What confuses me; Is the hate I got for not putting certain political slogans in my twitter a few years ago... Where's all that outrage for actual atrocities against women? Why no feminist marches? Didn't people in Canada get their bank accounts frozen for donating to truckers honking loudly? Why is that apparatus not being applied here?
(Not the person you're replying to)
The issue is that I automatically diminish most of that evidence from my consideration, because things in that general seem expected based on past experience that states at war (and ideological war) with each other will come up with a bunch of legitimate recordings of the other side doing some crazy shit. These don't provide zero evidence, but they don't actually provide all that much
Ala https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/
I do have a position from looking around at various pieces of information, but just seeing the most-striking controversial videos would give you a confused look at the whole problem.
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Notes -
I've seen a few people wonder why some people support Palestine in this conflict. While videos like this one (which predates the current conflict) are undoubtedly propaganda, they do offer a window into the worldview of a person who supports Palestine.
I'm honestly a little conflicted about who I should support. I condemn the killing of civilians by Hamas last weekend, but then I see United Nations OCHA data like this, where it says that 3,208 Palestinian civilians have died from 2008 to 2020 (compared to 177 Israeli civilians over the same period), mostly from air-launched explosions. I see people talking about supporting "the Jewish state’s justified but often brutal response", which so far includes blowing up a Palestinian house full of civilians with no warning, killing those inside, blowing up marketplaces and mosques, and attacking the Jabalia refugee camp.
Wikipedia claims that 40% of male Palestinians have spent some time in an Israeli prison. I hear about Israel demolishing 55,000 Palestinian structures as of 2022. I remember that Gaza had been blockaded by Egypt and Israel since 2005, despite Israel supposedly backing out of Gaza.
Even if every example of Israelis killing Palestinian civilians was collateral damage or accident, even if we assume that the cameras showing Israeli brutality always start rolling at the perfect moment to make it look like unnecessary brutality on their part, it's obvious to me that Palestine won't be able to grow under its current conditions of occupation. If the United States supports Israel, then Israel will prevail and Palestine will lose little by little every year. It will be a slow motion catastrophe, and there is nothing Palestine can do about it.
Is national, regional and global stability worth anything to the Palestinian people under such conditions? No wonder people are posting music videos in this thread of Palestinians with pipe dreams of Russia becoming a global super power again, and supporting Palestine to spite the United States. They're fucked, and I think there's something noble in fighting until you're wiped from the Earth by your enemy. Even if history remembers you as a monster, they will remember you.
I don't understand how you can watch some of the videos that came out the last couple days and still feel this way. Raping someone to death and using their body as a trophy and then proudly releasing the video... makes it kind of an easy choice.
What confuses me; Is the hate I got for not putting certain political slogans in my twitter a few years ago... Where's all that outrage for actual atrocities against women? Why no feminist marches? Didn't people in Canada get their bank accounts frozen for donating to truckers honking loudly? Why is that apparatus not being applied here?
(Not the person you're replying to) The issue is that I automatically diminish most of that evidence from my consideration, because things in that general seem expected based on past experience that states at war (and ideological war) with each other will come up with a bunch of legitimate recordings of the other side doing some crazy shit. These don't provide zero evidence, but they don't actually provide all that much Ala https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/
I do have a position from looking around at various pieces of information, but just seeing the most-striking controversial videos would give you a confused look at the whole problem.
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