naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
The only way out is through de-escalation and the only permanent de-escalation is through formal legal recognition of Palestinians in the territories as full citizens in a democratic system. This might come from the establishment of a Palestinian state
Does Gaza not already count as a Palestinian state? Ignoring the blockade, they have sovereignty.
Gaza has been under blockade by Israel and Egypt since 2007, Israel imposes curfews on Palestinians, Palestinians don't have freedom of movement, and Israel apparently has the power to turn off their electricity and water at will. How can Gaza be said to have sovereignty?
I didn't know about the curfews, or the freedom of movement. Could you tell me more about the freedom of movement? Are they not allowed to move throughout Gaza, or do you just mean that they can't leave Gaza? Because the latter is just sensible border policy.
Believe me, I'd read about this if I knew where to find reliable information.
Freedom of movement refers to Palestinians within Gaza not being allowed to get to the West Bank (and vice verse), and within the West Bank being forced to go through Israeli military check points. That also is how the curfew is imposed, mostly within the West Bank since 2005.
Even so, just the blockade and the fact that Israel can cut off electricity and water are enough to call the de facto "sovereignty" of Gaza into question.
If they only do it when the government isn't cooperating with them to uncover the identities of mass murderers, then it doesn't seem like a problem to me, but you're right that it does call their sovereignty into question.
I think the military checkpoints are more meaningful examples: being vulnerable to blockade and international electricity/water shipments describes a lot of places everyone considers states with sovereignty.
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Notes -
Does Gaza not already count as a Palestinian state? Ignoring the blockade, they have sovereignty.
Gaza has been under blockade by Israel and Egypt since 2007, Israel imposes curfews on Palestinians, Palestinians don't have freedom of movement, and Israel apparently has the power to turn off their electricity and water at will. How can Gaza be said to have sovereignty?
I didn't know about the curfews, or the freedom of movement. Could you tell me more about the freedom of movement? Are they not allowed to move throughout Gaza, or do you just mean that they can't leave Gaza? Because the latter is just sensible border policy.
Believe me, I'd read about this if I knew where to find reliable information.
Freedom of movement refers to Palestinians within Gaza not being allowed to get to the West Bank (and vice verse), and within the West Bank being forced to go through Israeli military check points. That also is how the curfew is imposed, mostly within the West Bank since 2005.
Even so, just the blockade and the fact that Israel can cut off electricity and water are enough to call the de facto "sovereignty" of Gaza into question.
If they only do it when the government isn't cooperating with them to uncover the identities of mass murderers, then it doesn't seem like a problem to me, but you're right that it does call their sovereignty into question.
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I think the military checkpoints are more meaningful examples: being vulnerable to blockade and international electricity/water shipments describes a lot of places everyone considers states with sovereignty.
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