naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
13867 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #3
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Man Israel was the last country I'd have expected to wuss out under globohomo pressure. Just go in, take control and make it known to the Palestinians that there is nothing they can ever do which would make the Israelis leave, so they better get used to a life with the Jews in charge (this is equivalent to removing your steering wheel and throwing it away in a game of Chicken) where any violence will get you branded as a hooligan/lout in the eyes of the state and treated appropriately. Give it 2 generations of this + a generous dose of the alkahest of modernity and what remains of the palestinians will be little different to low human capital occidentals, still a burden on society but by and large placated like your average domesticated westerner.
This would be a really effective strategy if Israel existed in an orbiting space colony or a wizard-created demiplane. Unfortunately we don't live in a world with DnD wizards, which means Israel has to exist in the real world, and this means that it has to exist with a bunch of neighbours as well. Israel absolutely has a lot of ways to permanently solve the Palestinian "problem" (even phrasing it like that feels uncomfortable to me), but there aren't many solutions that won't immediately create a larger problem (the reaction from the broader international community).
I'd have expected to wuss out under globohomo pressure
The end of the end of history may have been greatly exaggerated. Even the one militarist ethonationalist state Westerners can vicariously live through is getting cucked.
and make it known to the Palestinians that there is nothing they can ever do which would make the Israelis leave, so they better get used to a life with the Jews in charge
If Israel cannot easily go into Gaza after Jews were murdered and raped on live TV, they're not going to be able to do what it takes to "convince" Palestinians (or at least Hamas) to "get over it".
But I can see an occupation quickly convincing Israel it isn't worth it, while convincing (more) Muslims that it is very much is to fight Israel.
Even the one militarist ethonationalist state Westerners can vicariously live through is getting cucked.
I think most westerners who are ethnonationalists don't really have a positive view of Israel. It isn't hard to understand why, because the existence of organisations like AIPAC and the actions of people like Frank Lowy are the sort of thing they're violently and diametrically opposed to. I don't spend much time in those circles, but a quick glance at the ethnonationalist right at the moment reveals a lot of responses to the conflict in the vein of "Alex_Jones_sipping_champagne.gif"
Some ritual humbling may be a more humane solution than just violence. Forbid the building and repairing of mosques and any religious noise, special tax, obligatory bowing when they pass a jew on the street...
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Man Israel was the last country I'd have expected to wuss out under globohomo pressure. Just go in, take control and make it known to the Palestinians that there is nothing they can ever do which would make the Israelis leave, so they better get used to a life with the Jews in charge (this is equivalent to removing your steering wheel and throwing it away in a game of Chicken) where any violence will get you branded as a hooligan/lout in the eyes of the state and treated appropriately. Give it 2 generations of this + a generous dose of the alkahest of modernity and what remains of the palestinians will be little different to low human capital occidentals, still a burden on society but by and large placated like your average domesticated westerner.
This would be a really effective strategy if Israel existed in an orbiting space colony or a wizard-created demiplane. Unfortunately we don't live in a world with DnD wizards, which means Israel has to exist in the real world, and this means that it has to exist with a bunch of neighbours as well. Israel absolutely has a lot of ways to permanently solve the Palestinian "problem" (even phrasing it like that feels uncomfortable to me), but there aren't many solutions that won't immediately create a larger problem (the reaction from the broader international community).
More options
Context Copy link
The end of the end of history may have been greatly exaggerated. Even the one militarist ethonationalist state Westerners can vicariously live through is getting cucked.
If Israel cannot easily go into Gaza after Jews were murdered and raped on live TV, they're not going to be able to do what it takes to "convince" Palestinians (or at least Hamas) to "get over it".
But I can see an occupation quickly convincing Israel it isn't worth it, while convincing (more) Muslims that it is very much is to fight Israel.
I think most westerners who are ethnonationalists don't really have a positive view of Israel. It isn't hard to understand why, because the existence of organisations like AIPAC and the actions of people like Frank Lowy are the sort of thing they're violently and diametrically opposed to. I don't spend much time in those circles, but a quick glance at the ethnonationalist right at the moment reveals a lot of responses to the conflict in the vein of "Alex_Jones_sipping_champagne.gif"
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Some ritual humbling may be a more humane solution than just violence. Forbid the building and repairing of mosques and any religious noise, special tax, obligatory bowing when they pass a jew on the street...
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link