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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   24924 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 30, 2023

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In that sense, it sort of is possible to 'fail' at being nonbinary, in a way that's a lot less possible with binary trans (assuming you're making an effort at the established path). Someone can look at your self-invented steps and methods and say 'You really are not anywhere outside of the established binary, or even near the periphery.'

Sure, and my question is, what is the equivalent for trans women? What would it take before I can legitimately say "you really are not anywhere outside of the social category associated with your sex, or even near the periphery"? Looking like a cis man apparently doesn't invalidate a trans woman's self-declared gender identity; nor dressing like one; nor sounding like one; nor having male genitalia; nor behaving like a cis man - is there anything more quintessentially masculine than starting a drunken fight outside of a bar, or raping someone (a crime that, as I mentioned in another comment, is defined in many jurisdictions such that only male people can commit it)? "Trans women don't owe you femininity", after all - a trans woman is not obliged to do anything associated with the female sex or women, and must still be considered a woman no matter what.

To sum up: I don't understand why a "non-binary" gender identity is contingent, but a "trans woman" gender identity is axiomatic and unquestionable.

To sum up: I don't understand why a "non-binary" gender identity is contingent, but a "trans woman" gender identity is axiomatic and unquestionable.

Oh, sorry, I thought that was clear: It's because we're currently engaged in a number of legal battles over the rights and status of binary trans people along many different axes, so the actual considered discussion of such topics is drowned out by political activists on both sides circling the wagons and offering extremist rhetoric to push their side of the ballot onto voters.

Yes, that's annoying, but it's approximately what always happens when any issue is being used as a wedge in elections and coming before legislatures.

Beneath that, and especially in offline spaces where real people are talking to real people, there's much more measured standards that consider all the stuff you're talking about in a holistic way. Although, with the caution that a lot of people are at the start of their transition process or have to stay closeted at work or at church or etc., and these are valid excuses for not already always ticking all the boxes.

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